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An acquaintance was bragging on how he recently got out of class after about 5 hours for a new CHL. Although I tried to convince him that was neither ethical nor legal (Class A Misdemeanor if he applies), there was no way to convince him of the risks or evil associated with filing his application.

In your opinion, am I legally, morally or ethically bound to do anything else? My inclination is to mind my own business especially since I have no proof.

Sounds like you've done your bit, your conscience should be clear.

Under the circumstances you did the best you could. You could possibly remind your friend, that when the instructor finally gets caught, every license issued under following his instruction is likely to become instantly invalid at the very least. IMO

To the student, nothing more you made your pitch, it was ignored.
If you know the instructor, suggest DPS have a look, no 1st hand knowledge, and the observation may be unfounded, but worth looking into... Kind of a deal.. They may have other "reports" of an unfounded nature that combined, mean more then just an isolated rumor. .

Av8rtx wrote:Under the circumstances you did the best you could. You could possibly remind your friend, that when the instructor finally gets caught, every license issued under following his instruction is likely to become instantly invalid at the very least. IMO

Although I did ask him to think about what will happen when the instructor eventually gets caught, I think it's unlikely they would invalidate every license from the instructor unless they had proof that EVERY class he/she taught was substandard. Even then, I think it would be unlikely.

I don't have any 3rd-party heartburn over instructors cutting class time for a license that should not require a class.
If I can pass the written test without a class, and pass the proficiency without a class, I should not need to take a class.
Just like a drivers license.

So... assuming the student actually passed both tests... As an uninvolved 3rd-party I'd say, "c'est la vie."

If I was the student, however, I would report the instructor to DPS. As much as I believe the CHL requirements are substantially overdone, I'm paying to follow the rules and the instructor just put my license in jeopardy even though I paid him/her for an honest days work.

I know this sounds a bit incongruous, but for me the difference is this..... I don't think I'm any "less safe" having CHL's out there with only 5 hours of instruction.... But I do take issue with paying for one thing and receiving something less.

Without firsthand knowledge, I would NOT get involved any further, except to recommend that your friend contact DPS and file a complaint.

IMO, YMMV, EIEIO.

Deleated Personal attack. Please review the rules.

Remind him his test asked if lying on a gvt form is a class A misdemeanor. That is asked because he signed the CHL 100 saying he received 10 hours of instructions. If state comes back and says 4 hour class or no class at all, fine. But right now we are required 10 hours and state is strict on that. Unfortunately I have been told by several that their class was 6 hours, or recently a would be student who was told they wouldn't worry with the shooting/proficiency portion.

bdickens wrote:Personally, I think you are legally, morally and ethically bound to get some business of your own so you can go mind it.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-I ... 0671027034" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wgoforth wrote:

bdickens wrote:Personally, I think you are legally, morally and ethically bound to get some business of your own so you can go mind it.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-I ... 0671027034" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think winning a friend was one of his goals in making that post. Although I wouldn't have phrased it that way, to a large extent I agree with him.

bdickens wrote: Deleated Personal attack. Please review the rules.

Now I'm beginning to remember the reasons for my self-imposed exile for a couple of years or so.

lrpettit wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

bdickens wrote:Personally, I think you are legally, morally and ethically bound to get some business of your own so you can go mind it.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-I ... 0671027034" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think winning a friend was one of his goals in making that post. Although I wouldn't have phrased it that way, to a large extent I agree with him.

Yeah, it's the truth and sometimes the truth hurts. If you want to get down to the very root of what is wrong with our country, it is people who can barely run their own lives running around telling others how to run theirs.

So someone else distilled someone else's 10 hour class down to 5.

Does it injure you? No.

Does it cause damage to your property? No.

Does it take money away from you? No.

Then it isn't your business. What is really important here, that someone is forced to endure 10 boring hours in a hot, stuffy classroom, or that he can pass the test?

The idea of reporting a condensed CHL class makes me think of a cop busting someone for spitting on the sidewalk while the bank across the street is getting robbed.

bdickens wrote:

lrpettit wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

bdickens wrote:Personally, I think you are legally, morally and ethically bound to get some business of your own so you can go mind it.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-I ... 0671027034" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think winning a friend was one of his goals in making that post. Although I wouldn't have phrased it that way, to a large extent I agree with him.

Yeah, it's the truth and sometimes the truth hurts. If you want to get down to the very root of what is wrong with our country, it is people who can barely run their own lives running around telling others how to run theirs.

So someone else distilled someone else's 10 hour class down to 5.

Does it injure you? No.

Does it cause damage to your property? No.

Does it take money away from you? No.

Then it isn't your business. What is really important here, that someone is forced to endure 10 boring hours in a hot, stuffy classroom, or that he can pass the test?

The idea of reporting a condensed CHL class makes me think of a cop busting someone for spitting on the sidewalk while the bank across the street is getting robbed.

If you notice in my original post, my inclination was to not to do anything more and it still is. I've looked at some of your previous posts and I understand that you don't believe a person should have any obstacles to exercising their 2A rights (including having to take a CHL class). At some level, I agree with you. However, I don't think members of society can choose what laws to obey and which not to (although I don't always comply with speed limits so I guess I'm a hypocrite). I question a person's ethics who would willingly commit a Class A Misdemeanor to save a couple of hours of training time. I really don't understand why an instructor would do it. There are some circumstances where I would provide information to help the police find a criminal. This isn't going to be one of them. However I do think it hurts the CHL community when this is tolerated, especially when he goes around bragging about it. It'll hurt the CHL community even more if does something stupid because he wasn't trained in TX law properly.

I'm also old enough that personal attacks don't affect me anymore and by the way, I do own two businesses that keep me extremely busy. So don't assume I'm some brown-nosed kid that tattles on everyone. To a large extent, we agree. However, I'm not going to feel bad about trying to convince an acquaintance or anybody else to think twice about committing a Class A Misdemeanor. From what I understand, that's where we disagree. You wouldn't have tried to change his actions. You would have MYOB. I don't think that makes one of us right and one of us wrong. If you do, I certainly believe you're entitled to your own opinion and I certainly believe you have the right to express it.

Train to time, not to standard.

bdickens wrote:Train to time, not to standard.

Or perhaps use the lawfully required alloted time to train the best you can.