TexasCHLforum.com

Check out DPS's downloadable forms section today!

infoman wrote:Check out DPS's downloadable forms section today!

Still doesn't say anything about instructor renewals just new instructor apps. After looking at Charles post concerning DPS this is looking like everyone must comply before they can renew. I had never looked at the law until Mr. Cotton made mention of it so this seems right on. I think it will be good for the program. I'm not half the instructor as many many on this forum are but I had people in my class that didn't know much about firearms.

cw3van wrote:

infoman wrote:Check out DPS's downloadable forms section today!

Still doesn't say anything about instructor renewals just new instructor apps. After looking at Charles post concerning DPS this is looking like everyone must comply before they can renew. I had never looked at the law until Mr. Cotton made mention of it so this seems right on. I think it will be good for the program. I'm not half the instructor as many many on this forum are but I had people in my class that didn't know much about firearms.

I read the statute a little differently as far as requiring NRA certification. I went ahead and got mine just in case.

GC §411.190. QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS. (a) The director may certify as a qualified handgun instructor a person who:
(1) is certified by the Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education or under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, to instruct others in the use of handguns;
(2) regularly instructs others in the use of handguns and has graduated from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors; or
(3) is certified by the National Rifle Association of America as a handgun instructor.

By using the work "may", the director may accept such certifications as satifying a portion of the instructor qualifications, but such certifications are not mandatory for the applicant.

In paragraph (b) the "must" indicates required training or demonstrated skills that must be covered in the state provided training.

(b) In addition to the qualifications described by Subsection (a), a qualified handgun instructor must be qualified to instruct persons in:
(1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
(2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
(3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
(4) proper storage practices for handguns, including storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child.

Paragraph (c) binds the state to provide, for a fee, all required training to become a certified instructor. Since Paragraph (a) does not mandate the other certifications, state provided training must cover all the needs of a new instructor.

(c) In the manner applicable to a person who applies for a license to carry a concealed handgun, the department shall conduct a background check of a person who applies for certification as a qualified handgun instructor. If the background check indicates that the applicant for certification would not qualify to receive a handgun license, the department may not certify the applicant as a qualified handgun in-structor. If the background check indicates that the applicant for certifi-cation would qualify to receive a handgun license, the department shall provide handgun instructor training to the applicant. The applicant shall pay a fee of $100 to the department for the training. The applicant must take and successfully complete the training offered by the department and pay the training fee before the department may certify the applicant as a qualified handgun instructor. The department shall issue a license to carry a concealed handgun under the authority of this subchapter to any person who is certified as a qualified handgun instructor and who pays to the department a fee of $100 in addition to the training fee. The department by rule may prorate or waive the training fee for an employee of another

I believe this is how the statute was read until this year. The changes are basically an attempt to reduce program costs to the state and transfer the additional training costs to the applicant.

This is just my opinion and your mileage may vary, but it does make me unhappy when they change the rules in the middle of the game.

I put this in another area but I will put it here too....

OK...I just waited on hold for a LONG time and finally talked to the CHL people. I was told that all Instructors up for renewal received their renewal letter too early and that was NOT supposed to happen. I was told that we would receive another letter in the near future and we would NOT be required to have a current NRA, TCLEOSE, etc. handgun Instructor Certification. This guy sounded very positive about this and I explained that I HAD a NRA handgun Instructor Qual back in 2002 but it has expired. He said it would not matter for the current Instructors and new info would be sent with the new letter. I will wait until this summer and if I have not heard anymore from them, I might just go get the NRA Handgun Instructor again. I hate to spent the money but I would also hate to have to attend the CHL Instructor school again. I invite anyone else to call the number (512-424-7293, wait on hold) and see if you receive the same information.

howdy wrote:I put this in another area but I will put it here too....

OK...I just waited on hold for a LONG time and finally talked to the CHL people. I was told that all Instructors up for renewal received their renewal letter too early and that was NOT supposed to happen. I was told that we would receive another letter in the near future and we would NOT be required to have a current NRA, TCLEOSE, etc. handgun Instructor Certification. This guy sounded very positive about this and I explained that I HAD a NRA handgun Instructor Qual back in 2002 but it has expired. He said it would not matter for the current Instructors and new info would be sent with the new letter. I will wait until this summer and if I have not heard anymore from them, I might just go get the NRA Handgun Instructor again. I hate to spent the money but I would also hate to have to attend the CHL Instructor school again. I invite anyone else to call the number (512-424-7293, wait on hold) and see if you receive the same information.

How did you get past the computer answering machine? Everytime I've called and selected "1" for CHL, it tells me they are not taking calls and hangs up. I've had email into them for 6 working days without a response.

If Instructors are required to fill out the CHL-90 as part of their paperwork on renewal, then it would seem to me that renewal instructors would be required to have one of the certification methods on the CHL-90. I know that someone posted about talking to DPS, and that renewals would not require NRA/TECLEOSE/etc. but that is in direct contradiction to what a level 3 supervisor told me a few weeks ago. He indicated that renewals would need to fill out the CHL-90 and be NRA/TECLEOSE/etc. certified prior to renewal. I wouldn't trust those people who answer the phone. One of them told me my CHL application was lost in the mailroom and I would have to wait til it was found. Which is the reason that I went up the chain to the Supervisor. I understand this is all speculation. However, according to the response from Mr. Cotton to a previous thread, this has always been part of the Code, and just hasn't been enforced. And according to DPS, that enforcement time has come.

TBM

2firfun50 wrote:

howdy wrote:I put this in another area but I will put it here too....

OK...I just waited on hold for a LONG time and finally talked to the CHL people. I was told that all Instructors up for renewal received their renewal letter too early and that was NOT supposed to happen. I was told that we would receive another letter in the near future and we would NOT be required to have a current NRA, TCLEOSE, etc. handgun Instructor Certification. This guy sounded very positive about this and I explained that I HAD a NRA handgun Instructor Qual back in 2002 but it has expired. He said it would not matter for the current Instructors and new info would be sent with the new letter. I will wait until this summer and if I have not heard anymore from them, I might just go get the NRA Handgun Instructor again. I hate to spent the money but I would also hate to have to attend the CHL Instructor school again. I invite anyone else to call the number (512-424-7293, wait on hold) and see if you receive the same information.

How did you get past the computer answering machine? Everytime I've called and selected "1" for CHL, it tells me they are not taking calls and hangs up. I've had email into them for 6 working days without a response.

Well, I called the number and it was busy, so I put it on speed dial until it answered. I selected "1" and listened to the music and announcements for 20 minutes. A guy came on and told me the DPS made a mistake sending out the renewal forms so early and current Instructors would not be required to have another Instructor course certification.

I took the CHL Instructor Course in 2002. They had 2 pathways at that time....the first was for someone that WAS a current handgun instructor and the second was for those not qualified as an instructor. They were very selective (we were told) and only had one class a year of 200 students. The best qualified took the course. If you were an instructor, you took the short (3 day) course. If you were not an instructor, you took the full week course. The DPS taught the required information to the non instructors. The DPS verified we could shoot by requiring 90% on the shooting course. The NRA requires you to hit a 9 inch plate at 15 yards. We were required to go to Austin every two years for a shooting qual with both pistol and revolver and have 4/5 hours of lecture with a written test. I enjoyed those requals. I got to hang out with a bunch of great people and ask my stupid questions (and hear other questions). I understand that going to Austin was a problem for some people. Why would they now go back and require someone to become a NRA Instructor if they have been teaching the CHL Course for years. In the past, you were not even required to have a CHL to be a CHL Instructor. (may still be that way) I don't teach how to shoot a handgun. I don't have time to teach them. I tell them at the beginning of the class that they are require to KNOW how to shoot and safely handle the handgun. I always find out by observation at the range that they don't have a clue what they are doing. I stop them right there, tell them to get trained and I will give them the shooting qual at my next course. I would think the range safety officer course would be more valid than a how to shoot course. It might be the DPS has too many instructors and is trying to weed out the non active ones. Or maybe I could start a "conspiracy theory" how the DPS is really trying to get rid of the CHL program. (this is tongue in cheek)

I keep editing this because I see spelling errors and sentences that just don't make sense.

2firfun50 wrote:

cw3van wrote:

infoman wrote:Check out DPS's downloadable forms section today!

Still doesn't say anything about instructor renewals just new instructor apps. After looking at Charles post concerning DPS this is looking like everyone must comply before they can renew. I had never looked at the law until Mr. Cotton made mention of it so this seems right on. I think it will be good for the program. I'm not half the instructor as many many on this forum are but I had people in my class that didn't know much about firearms.

I read the statute a little differently as far as requiring NRA certification. I went ahead and got mine just in case.

GC §411.190. QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS. (a) The director may certify as a qualified handgun instructor a person who:
(1) is certified by the Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education or under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, to instruct others in the use of handguns;
(2) regularly instructs others in the use of handguns and has graduated from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors; or
(3) is certified by the National Rifle Association of America as a handgun instructor.

By using the work "may", the director may accept such certifications as satifying a portion of the instructor qualifications, but such certifications are not mandatory for the applicant.

In paragraph (b) the "must" indicates required training or demonstrated skills that must be covered in the state provided training.

(b) In addition to the qualifications described by Subsection (a), a qualified handgun instructor must be qualified to instruct persons in:
(1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
(2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
(3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
(4) proper storage practices for handguns, including storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child.

Paragraph (c) binds the state to provide, for a fee, all required training to become a certified instructor. Since Paragraph (a) does not mandate the other certifications, state provided training must cover all the needs of a new instructor.

(c) In the manner applicable to a person who applies for a license to carry a concealed handgun, the department shall conduct a background check of a person who applies for certification as a qualified handgun instructor. If the background check indicates that the applicant for certification would not qualify to receive a handgun license, the department may not certify the applicant as a qualified handgun in-structor. If the background check indicates that the applicant for certifi-cation would qualify to receive a handgun license, the department shall provide handgun instructor training to the applicant. The applicant shall pay a fee of $100 to the department for the training. The applicant must take and successfully complete the training offered by the department and pay the training fee before the department may certify the applicant as a qualified handgun instructor. The department shall issue a license to carry a concealed handgun under the authority of this subchapter to any person who is certified as a qualified handgun instructor and who pays to the department a fee of $100 in addition to the training fee. The department by rule may prorate or waive the training fee for an employee of another

(d) The certification of a qualified handgun instructor expires on the
second anniversary after the date of certification. To renew a certification,
the qualified handgun instructor must pay a fee of $100 and take
and successfully complete the retraining courses required by department
rule.
(d-1) The department shall ensure that an applicant may renew certification
under Subsection (d) from any county in this state by using an
online format to complete the required retraining courses if:
(1) the applicant is renewing certification for the first time; or
(2) the applicant completed the required retraining courses in person
the previous time the applicant renewed certification.
(e) After certification, a qualified handgun instructor may conduct
training for applicants for a license under this subchapter.

I did not have to shoot at my last renewal, just take the online written test. I was told then that this reneweal would require me to do the shooting qual with any other CHL Instructor.

DPS is absolutely buried with applications now, so let's give them some time to notify folks about requirements for renewing our instructor certificates. I hope this latest information is correct and the NRA/TCLEOSE requirement will be applicable only to newly certified CHL Instructors. I do not have any information on this issue yet, but I will try to get an update and let folks know.

Please, let's not have a bunch of instructors calling DPS now; they simply don't have the time and resources to answer a flood of calls. Again, I'll contact DPS tomorrow and see what I can learn.

Thanks,
Chas.