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Okay, not sure how to work this.

I am looking for some kind of clarification on State law concerning city owned buildings and 30.06 signs vs Hospitals and 30.06 signs.

We all know that Hospitals can post 30.06 signs.

BUT

What about hospitals that are owned by the county and are NOT privately owned hospitals. The one in particular I am refering to is John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth. It is owned by Tarrant County Hospital District. The land it sits on (5 acres) was deeded by John Peter Smith, for whom which the hospital is named.

Anybody up to a friendly debate?

Dirthawking wrote:Okay, not sure how to work this.

I am looking for some kind of clarification on State law concerning city owned buildings and 30.06 signs vs Hospitals and 30.06 signs.

We all know that Hospitals can post 30.06 signs.

BUT

What about hospitals that are owned by the county and are NOT privately owned hospitals. The one in particular I am refering to is John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth. It is owned by Tarrant County Hospital District. The land it sits on (5 acres) was deeded by John Peter Smith, for whom which the hospital is named.

Anybody up to a friendly debate?

Total gray area of the law.

1) Hospitals can post 30.06.
2) 30.06 on government property is invalid (except in VERY limited situations)
3) Hospitals owned & operated by an educational institution (aka - teaching hospitals) are statutorily off limits.

So what takes precedent? What if it's a teaching hospital owned & operated by a state owned university?

As far as I'm aware, there's no case law that clarifies these answers.

Dirthawking wrote:Okay, not sure how to work this.

I am looking for some kind of clarification on State law concerning city owned buildings and 30.06 signs vs Hospitals and 30.06 signs.

We all know that Hospitals can post 30.06 signs.

BUT

What about hospitals that are owned by the county and are NOT privately owned hospitals. The one in particular I am refering to is John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth. It is owned by Tarrant County Hospital District. The land it sits on (5 acres) was deeded by John Peter Smith, for whom which the hospital is named.

Anybody up to a friendly debate?

It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

And?

My question for friendly debate is still valid. City/government property, tax payer funded hospital.

If you want to add something, try adding it. Anybody can cut and paste.....

There is an issue on a hospital that actually may allow a government hospital to post 30.06 and be valid. Our member srothstein pointed out that 30.06 states:

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section
that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Now, 46.035 DOES list a hospital as off limits

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;

So, even though (i) exists in 46.035 to require them to be posted 30.06, the listing of the hospital as off limits in 46.035 would allow the posting of a 30.06 sign on a government owned hospital valid.

Government-owned hospitals fall into the same category as government meetings in this regard.

MasterOfNone wrote:Government-owned hospitals fall into the same category as government meetings in this regard.

Not sure about that. I think my post above yours explains that they CAN post a 30.06 due to the loophole. We need to get section (I) and those location taken completely out of 46.035. Would prefer to get rid of it all together.

On a side note, let me begin by saying I work in one of San Antonio's larger hospitals that is indeed marked 30.06, and yeah, I'm compliant.

Just last week I was given a written policy to read and sign (as read) regarding 'Active Shooters on Campus'. In the policy was an attached flyer printed with the logos of the DHS, NTOA (?), and the National Retail Federation.

On the flyer are some to dos and some to don'ts regarding active shooters. In the top section, part 3 says "Act with physical aggression and throw items at the active shooter", after calling 911 when its safe to do so."

Really? This is the same large hospital that won't let me carry a cell phone while on duty. Irony much? I asked our administrator why on earth we're supposed to defend ourselves with office supplies when we have hot lead at our disposal? She said I was talking to the wrong gal, as she has to disarm in the parking garage like the rest of us, and more than likely she'd be the first to go!

I hate it that the folks that make the rules don't have to work in the real world anymore.

/rant off

Keith B wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:Government-owned hospitals fall into the same category as government meetings in this regard.

Not sure about that. I think my post above yours explains that they CAN post a 30.06 due to the loophole. We need to get section (I) and those location taken completely out of 46.035. Would prefer to get rid of it all together.

Both hospitals and government meetings are places in which a 30.06 sign is enforceable on government property because of them being identified in 46.035. They both require 30.06 notice per section (i), and their presence in 46.035 make the exception in 30.06(e) not apply. Either one CAN be posted with the same reason for doing so.

Keith B wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:Government-owned hospitals fall into the same category as government meetings in this regard.

Not sure about that. I think my post above yours explains that they CAN post a 30.06 due to the loophole. We need to get section (I) and those location taken completely out of 46.035. Would prefer to get rid of it all together.

This topic was discussed at length on a similar topic just a few days ago . It was decided that unless you want to be a test case it would not be wise . Too big a grey area , I like Keith B's idea .

MasterOfNone wrote:

Keith B wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:Government-owned hospitals fall into the same category as government meetings in this regard.

Not sure about that. I think my post above yours explains that they CAN post a 30.06 due to the loophole. We need to get section (I) and those location taken completely out of 46.035. Would prefer to get rid of it all together.

Both hospitals and government meetings are places in which a 30.06 sign is enforceable on government property because of them being identified in 46.035. They both require 30.06 notice per section (i), and their presence in 46.035 make the exception in 30.06(e) not apply. Either one CAN be posted with the same reason for doing so.

I agree. I actually misread your previous post and thought you said government buildings, not meetings. My bad.

The other question in my mind is how do you tell if it's a "teaching" hospital? There is no sign that I'm aware of... To me, it's a pretty dark color of gray!

cb1000rider wrote:The other question in my mind is how do you tell if it's a "teaching" hospital? There is no sign that I'm aware of... To me, it's a pretty dark color of gray!

Unless it is owned by a university and truly a medical school, then I would not consider it a school.

Keith B wrote:Unless it is owned by a university and truly a medical school, then I would not consider it a school.

What about medical-school-university owned/occupied buildings that are used for clinics and doctor's offices? They aren't hospitals... They don't teach classes there. Medical students may see patients alongside doctors there. Baylor has at least two such buildings in Houston. Neither are posted.

brhalltx wrote: Medical students may see patients alongside doctors there.

That's teaching.