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Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:37 pm
by carlson1
Can one of you legal guys point me to the law that says, "I can openly carry on my premises?"
My home which I own?
My Church which I am the Pastor of?
Re: Caryying On My Premises
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:46 pm
by G26ster
PC 46.02 tells you what you can't do unless you are on your own property or property under your control. What you mentioned is specifically exempted IMO. (emphasis mine)
I'm not one of the "legal guys" though
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
(a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
Re: Caryying On My Premises
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:47 pm
by RottenApple
carlson1 wrote:Can one of you legal guys point me to the law that says, "I can openly carry on my premises?"
My home which I own?
My Church which I am the Pastor of?
Laws don't tell you what you
can do or what is legal. They tell you what you
can't do.
Re: Caryying On My Premises
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:56 pm
by carlson1
G26ster wrote:PC 46.02 tells you what you can't do unless you are on your own property or property under your control. What you mentioned is specifically exempted IMO. (emphasis mine)
I'm not one of the "legal guys" though
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;
I believe that is what I was looking for. Thank you. 
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:47 am
by carlson1
How about me allowing those under my authority to open carry?
I have seen many pawn shops and gun shops with the employees carrying.
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:01 am
by longtooth
carlson1 wrote:How about me allowing those under my authority to open carry?
I have seen many pawn shops and gun shops with the employees carrying.
Steve Rothstein did a great job on this several months ago. Here is the summary best I can remember.
No one can give permission to another to break any law so no on permission to open carry on your property.
For there to be arrest & prosecution there must be a complaintant. In your house or on your private land probably no one will.
In your church that is open to the public there could be someone to complain.
That is the short summary. Anyone remember more to add????
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:21 am
by Keith B
The only way another could carry openly is if they would be considered under control of the premises. The question comes down to how many can be in control at one time?
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:40 pm
by carlson1
I guess the. There is a couple of Pawn Shops I like to shop in now and then where they all open carry. I guess no complaints.
The gun shops I guess everyone just assumes it is legal. I went into a gun shop in Garland a few weeks back and even the secretary was carrying. The shop has no gun range so they can't claim they are headed to the range.
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:56 am
by Keith B
Yeah, I think it is one of those areas where since it is a gun shop no one really says anything even though it is not legal. In a pawn shop they can probably get away with it too as no one complains about the violation of the rule.
My personal rule of thumb is if no one is going to see one or more people at a location open carrying and complain about it, then it will not be an issue. It only becomes a problem if someone reports it.
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:44 am
by carlson1
Thanks Keith. By the way I was asking for carrying during the week not on Sundays. On Sundays we all wear suit coats. During the week I do not turn on all of the A/C's and it get warm in some places in the building.
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:46 am
by The Annoyed Man
longtooth wrote:carlson1 wrote:How about me allowing those under my authority to open carry?
I have seen many pawn shops and gun shops with the employees carrying.
Steve Rothstein did a great job on this several months ago. Here is the summary best I can remember.
No one can give permission to another to break any law so no on permission to open carry on your property.
For there to be arrest & prosecution there must be a complaintant. In your house or on your private land probably no one will.
In your church that is open to the public there could be someone to complain.
That is the short summary. Anyone remember more to add????
Would the "carrying in a manner to cause alarm" thingie apply? .....meaning, you can open carry on your land until it causes your neighbor alarm?
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:53 am
by Lucky
The Annoyed Man wrote:Would the "carrying in a manner to cause alarm" thingie apply? .....meaning, you can open carry on your land until it causes your neighbor alarm?
If openly carrying a handgun in a holster is displayed "in a manner calculated to alarm" then police would be arresting armed security guards all the time, not to mention the gun store employees mentioned earlier.
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:22 pm
by Jim88
My personal rule of thumb is if no one is going to see one or more people at a location open carrying and complain about it, then it will not be an issue. It only becomes a problem if someone reports it.
IANAL but from what I remember from a couple of law classes I took in college, this is probably a false sense of security because there doesn't have to be a complaint when you're talking about breaking a law in the criminal code. Think of it like this: there doesn't have to be someone to make a complaint when there's a murder. All it takes is one LEO or prosecutor who wants to make it an issue. It's the civil code that usually needs someone to complain.
It's been 23 years since I graduated so I may be wrong.
Re: Carrying On My Premises
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:18 pm
by Keith B
Jim88 wrote:My personal rule of thumb is if no one is going to see one or more people at a location open carrying and complain about it, then it will not be an issue. It only becomes a problem if someone reports it.
IANAL but from what I remember from a couple of law classes I took in college, this is probably a false sense of security because there doesn't have to be a complaint when you're talking about breaking a law in the criminal code. Think of it like this: there doesn't have to be someone to make a complaint when there's a murder. All it takes is one LEO or prosecutor who wants to make it an issue. It's the civil code that usually needs someone to complain.
It's been 23 years since I graduated so I may be wrong.
I think you missed the point. The law is gray here as there is no definition of 'under control' to state that only one or multiple people can have control of a location. My personal feeling is if it is private property, then you can designate who you want to be in control and you can 'share' that responsibility with your staff. However, without a clear definition or case law, then we don't have that down pat. SO, unlike your committing murder scenario which is a clear cut violation, I don't believe these people are breaking the law by carrying in a place where they all have a say in control. BUT, if someone complains and the LEO's come in and decide to arrest someone for UCW and let the DA and courts sort it out, then you will have to go through the legal process and case law will be established based on how good your defense attorney is and how the DA and or AG want to try to now define 'under control' of a location.