TexasCHLforum.com

My wife and I both received our CHL about a month ago. I have been carrying as much I can, but I work for a University, so definitely cannot carry at work. My wife on the other hand, works for a company with an anti-weapons policy included in her employee contract. As I understand from reading around the forums a bit, unless a proper 30.06 notification is given, then we can legally carry concealed in the building. However, because she signed the contract with this included, she COULD be fired if caught carrying, but could any legal action be taken? Also, can I legally carry into her office, I would guess so, again, due to the lack of 30.06. Now, another wrench thrown into the system, the owner of the company carries. How does this fall, or is it just a morals situation?

This is the policy included with the employee contract:
(I typed up the important part, as the definition of "weapon" is not needed for this discussion)

"The Company" prohibits employees, clients and visitors from possessing, carrying, or using weapons on property owned by,
or under the control of "The Company." This prohibition extends to company grounds and parking lots. Employees are prohibited
from carrying or possessing firearms while acting in the course and scope of their employment, regardless of whether or not
they are physically on company property. Violations of this policy may result in disciplinary action, up to and including dismissal
and criminal prosecution.

He's the owner, so I don't think there's much that could be done about his carrying in his business. Now, you and your wife can both carry there and it would be very difficult if not impossible to bring charges against either of you for doing so since there isn't proper 30.06 notice. However, I think that if either of you were caught carrying there that your wife's job would be in jeopardy.

EDIT: He does need to update his policy on the parking lot. That part is not in compliance with SB321.

If that employment policy applied to me, I would not carry at work. Obvious risk of unemployment. If my wife worked there I wouldn't carry into the building either.

I don't see how they're going to really enforce that policy against clients or visitors who hold a CHL without a 30.06 sign except on a case-by-case basis of oral communication.

An easy way to determine the difference between carrying by a customer and carrying by an employee is to look at it this way:

30.06 is for the general population coming into the building. A 30.06 sign has to meet the state mandated conditions to considered effective notice (proper height, exact language, contrasting color, english/spanish, proper placement). No one can carry past a 30.06 sign, including employees. But sometimes employers just put the proper 30.06 language or no weapons notice in the handbook for employees and forget to put up the sign for the general public.

If there is no 30.06 sign, then an employee can fall back to his employee manual, memo from the owner/person who has authority to act on behalf of the business, staff meeting, etc., with regard to employee carrying weapons. An employer does NOT have to follow proper 30.06 notice. If the employer tells the employee that carrying is not allowed, then the employee has been given effective notice. If the employer includes the above language (that you posted) in the employee handbook, and the handbook is signed by the employee, the employee carries, and is caught, the employer can terminate the employee. But there aren't any criminal charges that would apply unless the handbook has the exact 30.06 language.

With regard to the parking lot, we would need to know a little bit more about your wife's employer in order to determine if the employer is in violation of the parking lot law. There are 3 exceptions to the parking lot law (labor code 52.061): public/private schools, private landowners leasing oil/gas/mineral rights, and chemical plants. If her employer does not fall within these 3 categories, then yes, the employer is violating the labor code and needs to update the contract because the employer cannot prevent your wife from storing her weapon in her car unless the employer meets one of the above mentioned 3 categories.

As for you carrying in your wife's business, if there is no 30.06 sign when you enter, and you have not been told by the owner/authorized person, and you did not sign this contract, then you have not been given effective notice. If the owner/authorized person was to tell you 'No carrying' allowed when you walk in the door, then you need to leave and come back unarmed. If your wife has signed this document, she has received notice and should not carry in compliance with the document she signed. But just because you are married to her doesn't mean you have to abide by this document (unless it directly talks about spouses).

Some might say that, as her husband posting this document, you have received effective notice. I don't agree with this statement. But I am going to go out on a limb and say your wife's employer is wrong to try to prohibit parking lot vehicle storing of the firearm. Of course, this is assuming the car is owned by you/your wife, and not a company vehicle.

TBM

The_Busy_Mom wrote:An easy way to determine the difference between carrying by a customer and carrying by an employee is to look at it this way:

30.06 is for the general population coming into the building. A 30.06 sign has to meet the state mandated conditions to considered effective notice (proper height, exact language, contrasting color, english/spanish, proper placement). No one can carry past a 30.06 sign, including employees. But sometimes employers just put the proper 30.06 language or no weapons notice in the handbook for employees and forget to put up the sign for the general public.

If there is no 30.06 sign, then an employee can fall back to his employee manual, memo from the owner/person who has authority to act on behalf of the business, staff meeting, etc., with regard to employee carrying weapons. An employer does NOT have to follow proper 30.06 notice. If the employer tells the employee that carrying is not allowed, then the employee has been given effective notice. If the employer includes the above language (that you posted) in the employee handbook, and the handbook is signed by the employee, the employee carries, and is caught, the employer can terminate the employee. But there aren't any criminal charges that would apply unless the handbook has the exact 30.06 language.

With regard to the parking lot, we would need to know a little bit more about your wife's employer in order to determine if the employer is in violation of the parking lot law. There are 3 exceptions to the parking lot law (labor code 52.061): public/private schools, private landowners leasing oil/gas/mineral rights, and chemical plants. If her employer does not fall within these 3 categories, then yes, the employer is violating the labor code and needs to update the contract because the employer cannot prevent your wife from storing her weapon in her car unless the employer meets one of the above mentioned 3 categories.

As for you carrying in your wife's business, if there is no 30.06 sign when you enter, and you have not been told by the owner/authorized person, and you did not sign this contract, then you have not been given effective notice. If the owner/authorized person was to tell you 'No carrying' allowed when you walk in the door, then you need to leave and come back unarmed. If your wife has signed this document, she has received notice and should not carry in compliance with the document she signed. But just because you are married to her doesn't mean you have to abide by this document (unless it directly talks about spouses).

Some might say that, as her husband posting this document, you have received effective notice. I don't agree with this statement. But I am going to go out on a limb and say your wife's employer is wrong to try to prohibit parking lot vehicle storing of the firearm. Of course, this is assuming the car is owned by you/your wife, and not a company vehicle.

TBM

Awesome, that about sums up everything I thought. The business does not meet any of the mentioned 3 categories, so parking lot should not be in the contract. I knew that she could be fired if she was caught carrying into work, but wasn't sure if any criminal charges could actually apply as mentioned in the text. I'm not really sure how they can make such a broad statement saying visitors cannot carry without any posted signs. I rarely go to her office, so I'm not sure if I will carry next time I go, but unless I see a sign, I will assume I can carry, just like anywhere else.

Texas is a right to work state. If the employer wants ban guns in employee cars in their parking lot, they can. And they can tell any employee that their services are no longer needed, for any reason. The law protects visitors who do not have to comply with company rules from legal action.

added: I also work for a private university, but they have the good foresight to permit employees who are CHL holders to keep firearms in the vehicles in campus parking lots.

oohrah wrote:If the employer wants ban guns in employee cars in their parking lot, they can.

No, they can't. Not for nearly two years now.

Unless you work at a chemical plant, and a couple other exceptions.

Dave2 wrote:

oohrah wrote:If the employer wants ban guns in employee cars in their parking lot, they can.

No, they can't. Not for nearly two years now.

Unless you work at a chemical plant, and a couple other exceptions.

I believe you missed his point. He is saying the employer will not terminate for a gun in the car, the termination would simply state, "we no longer need your services".

The_Busy_Mom wrote:An easy way to determine the difference between carrying by a customer and carrying by an employee is to look at it this way:

30.06 is for the general population coming into the building. A 30.06 sign has to meet the state mandated conditions to considered effective notice (proper height, exact language, contrasting color, english/spanish, proper placement). No one can carry past a 30.06 sign, including employees. But sometimes employers just put the proper 30.06 language or no weapons notice in the handbook for employees and forget to put up the sign for the general public.

If there is no 30.06 sign, then an employee can fall back to his employee manual, memo from the owner/person who has authority to act on behalf of the business, staff meeting, etc., with regard to employee carrying weapons. An employer does NOT have to follow proper 30.06 notice. If the employer tells the employee that carrying is not allowed, then the employee has been given effective notice. If the employer includes the above language (that you posted) in the employee handbook, and the handbook is signed by the employee, the employee carries, and is caught, the employer can terminate the employee. But there aren't any criminal charges that would apply unless the handbook has the exact 30.06 language.

With regard to the parking lot, we would need to know a little bit more about your wife's employer in order to determine if the employer is in violation of the parking lot law. There are 3 exceptions to the parking lot law (labor code 52.061): public/private schools, private landowners leasing oil/gas/mineral rights, and chemical plants. If her employer does not fall within these 3 categories, then yes, the employer is violating the labor code and needs to update the contract because the employer cannot prevent your wife from storing her weapon in her car unless the employer meets one of the above mentioned 3 categories.

As for you carrying in your wife's business, if there is no 30.06 sign when you enter, and you have not been told by the owner/authorized person, and you did not sign this contract, then you have not been given effective notice. If the owner/authorized person was to tell you 'No carrying' allowed when you walk in the door, then you need to leave and come back unarmed. If your wife has signed this document, she has received notice and should not carry in compliance with the document she signed. But just because you are married to her doesn't mean you have to abide by this document (unless it directly talks about spouses).

Some might say that, as her husband posting this document, you have received effective notice. I don't agree with this statement. But I am going to go out on a limb and say your wife's employer is wrong to try to prohibit parking lot vehicle storing of the firearm. Of course, this is assuming the car is owned by you/your wife, and not a company vehicle.

TBM

There is one qualification you missed concerning chemical plants. It only restricts firearms in restricted parking lots inside the plant perimeter. If the employee parking lot is outside the gates, there is no problem storing your weapon in your car.

Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:

(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
.
.
.
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:
(i) that contains the physical plant;
(ii) that is not open to the public; and
(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.

The employer is well within their rights to not allow firearms in their parking lot. They just can't prevent it if the firearm is left in a vehicle unless they meet the requirements mentioned in some of the other posts. There is also no requirement that an employee sign anything for company policy to be in effect.

3dfxMM wrote:The employer is well within their rights to not allow firearms in their parking lot. They just can't prevent it if the firearm is left in a vehicle unless they meet the requirements mentioned in some of the other posts. There is also no requirement that an employee sign anything for company policy to be in effect.

No, private property rights DO NOT allow you to allow things (such as murder or rape) that are illegal or to DISALLOW things that are specifically legal (such as guns in cars in parking lots.)

Please read the Attorney General's opinion to a state senator that inquired about this.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/op ... ga0972.htm

android wrote:

3dfxMM wrote:The employer is well within their rights to not allow firearms in their parking lot. They just can't prevent it if the firearm is left in a vehicle unless they meet the requirements mentioned in some of the other posts. There is also no requirement that an employee sign anything for company policy to be in effect.

No, private property rights DO NOT allow you to allow things (such as murder or rape) that are illegal or to DISALLOW things that are specifically legal (such as guns in cars in parking lots.)

Please read the Attorney General's opinion to a state senator that inquired about this.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/op ... ga0972.htm

You apparently didn't read what I wrote. Try again.