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Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abduction?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:35 am
by rp_photo
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IMHO, the father would have been in the right to draw or shoot to keep the children from being taken.
Also IMHO, the wrecker driver should be hit with every charge possible and lose their license for life.
Far too many of these wrecker drivers are opportunistic borderline criminals.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:40 am
by JALLEN
Why was the car being towed? Repo? Parking in front of a no parking sign? How long was it there?
How does a tow truck have the right to tow a car from a no parking zone? Don't they just get a ticket or something?
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:47 am
by rp_photo
JALLEN wrote:Why was the car being towed? Repo? Parking in front of a no parking sign? How long was it there?
How does a tow truck have the right to tow a car from a no parking zone? Don't they just get a ticket or something?
I don't think that matters given the fact that there were children in the car.
From the father's perspective, he would have seconds to stop his children being taken by someone with unknown intent to an unknown place, who could very well be some kind of "fake" driver or a legitimate (and I use the term loosely) acting outside of the law, and if he had been armed would have had every right to use deadly force.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:00 am
by Texsquatch
It's really never a good idea to leave kids in the car, and why didn't neighbors do more to stop the tow truck driver is beyond me. This was such a poorly written article, and so much detail was missing, it's hard to make a fair judgement, but I can promise you that I would do whatever it takes to stop this idiot from dragging my children away.
Maybe if you attack, shoot, or kill the tow truck driver, you'd get arrested, but I say, let the courts figure this one out. I think you'd have a better chance in court than having to live with the thought that you could have done more to stop the guy had the children been harmed.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:05 am
by rp_photo
Texsquatch wrote:Maybe if you attack, shoot, or kill the tow truck driver, you'd get arrested, but I say, let the courts figure this one out. I think you'd have a better chance in court than having to live with the thought that you could have done more to stop the guy had the children been harmed.
It might also send a sobering message to other predatory wrecker drivers that they aren't above the law or even the law itself as some seem to think.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:15 am
by MechAg94
Even If he was right to tow the car, I thought it was illegal to tow a car with people in it.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:20 am
by EEllis
JALLEN wrote:Why was the car being towed? Repo? Parking in front of a no parking sign? How long was it there?
How does a tow truck have the right to tow a car from a no parking zone? Don't they just get a ticket or something?
If it was in front of the apartments I'm sure it was private property and thus needs no ticket. There is required "notice" in signs and markings that must be there but if done a persons car is towable as soon as it is left. That being said you cannot tow a car with someone in it and drivers have been charged with kidnapping for knowingly doing so.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:28 am
by baldeagle
Victor Ruiz reportedly parked his car in a no-parking zone outside of his Houston apartment while he ran the bags into his place, and while he was doing so, he supposedly asked neighbors to keep an eye on the car. However, while he was inside, a tow truck came and towed Ruiz's car away with the girls in it. According to the neighbors, the tow truck driver was told that there were kids in the car, yet he towed it anyway. And somehow, Ruiz is the only one in trouble. Fair of unjust?
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:35 am
by EEllis
Even in Harris County you would be indited for shooting at a wrecker driver in this situation. You have no way of knowing that the driver is knowingly taking your kids, heck that's about the least likely possibility. You parked where, assumingly, it is clearly marked that you cannot park and surprise you got towed. That your kids were sleeping in the car, where you left them unattended, and were not noticed by the wrecker driver, should allow you to shoot him. Not to mention you would be putting your kids at a higher risk by shooting the tow driver.
It might also send a sobering message to other predatory wrecker drivers that they aren't above the law or even the law itself as some seem to think.
Yep because if you kill a few then the rest will stop trying to earn a living or feed their families.
Not that this statement seems to apply or have much to do with this situation as far as we know since clearly the guy parked were he knew, or should, that he could be towed and left his kids in the car where I bet they were not clearly visible. Was it at night? Mind you the driver should of checked better but when worried about some nut shooting at you because you are towing their car you tend to hurry and drivers do have to worry as, even when they are 100% in the right and within the law, get threatened and have guns pulled on them while they are just doing their job.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:39 am
by EEllis
baldeagle wrote: Victor Ruiz reportedly parked his car in a no-parking zone outside of his Houston apartment while he ran the bags into his place, and while he was doing so, he supposedly asked neighbors to keep an eye on the car. However, while he was inside, a tow truck came and towed Ruiz's car away with the girls in it. According to the neighbors, the tow truck driver was told that there were kids in the car, yet he towed it anyway. And somehow, Ruiz is the only one in trouble. Fair of unjust?
I got to say, and I'm not now nor have I ever been a wrecker driver, but there would be no way a driver would ever tow a car that they knew had a person in it. Maybe someone yelled something or whatever but the driver clearly didn't hear because at the very least they know there is no way in heck they get paid for that tow. Sounds cold but they know there will be no money at the least and at the worst could end up in criminal charges. A wrecker may not be as careful as he should but no way did he know when he pulled that car.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:46 am
by rp_photo
EEllis wrote:
Not that this statement seems to apply or have much to do with this situation as far as we know since clearly the guy parked were he knew, or should, that he could be towed and left his kids in the car where I bet they were not clearly visible. Was it at night? Mind you the driver should of checked better but when worried about some nut shooting at you because you are towing their car you tend to hurry and drivers do have to worry as, even when they are 100% in the right and within the law, get threatened and have guns pulled on them while they are just doing their job.
In a non-emergency situation like this, a worker is responsible for making safety checks prior to starting a job, and will not undertake the job if unable to so. Cutting corners in order to do the job quickly to avoid anticipated trouble seems like criminal's mindset.
And should you expect much understanding when you severely inconvenience and sometimes endanger otherwise good people for very small mistakes? Yes, they perform a valuable service when assisting disabled drivers and working accidents, but I have a feeling the real money is made in aggressive parking enforcement, often in collusion with police and property owners.
I'm not sure what kind of person you would have to be to negatively interact with people day in and day out, but I am sure grateful to not have such a job.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:05 pm
by EEllis
rp_photo wrote:EEllis wrote:
Not that this statement seems to apply or have much to do with this situation as far as we know since clearly the guy parked were he knew, or should, that he could be towed and left his kids in the car where I bet they were not clearly visible. Was it at night? Mind you the driver should of checked better but when worried about some nut shooting at you because you are towing their car you tend to hurry and drivers do have to worry as, even when they are 100% in the right and within the law, get threatened and have guns pulled on them while they are just doing their job.
I mean really, should you expect any better treatment when you severely inconvenience and sometimes endanger otherwise good people for very small mistakes? Yes, they perform a valuable service when assisting disabled drivers and working accidents, but I have a feeling the real money is made in aggressive parking enforcement, often in collusion with police and property owners.
I'm not sure what kind of person you would have to be to negatively interact with people day in and day out, but I am sure grateful to not have such a job.
Yes you should. Saying someone should expect to be threatened for doing a legal and necessary job is beyond the pale. ME Me Me. I need to park there, I need to pull up in that handicapped spot, I need to park in that fire lane. Well I want that truck to tow your butt. Collusion? What normally happens is after trying and trying a property manager feels they have nothing left to address parking issues but contract with a tow company to address violators. You do realize that an apartment can get sued if they don't tow from handicap spaces? If a fire truck gets delayed due to vehicles blocking lanes or gate they can get sued and/or fined by the fire dept? Not to mention they get regular complaints from the vast majority of residents who park legally and have no concern about tow companies entering the complex. Small mistakes? Look it's not a mistake 99.9% of the time it's someone who is trying to get over. Who decides that irregardless of the rules they are going to do what they want. Well sometimes it backfires and of course it isn't
their fault. Oh no it's that predatory wrecker driver!
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:12 pm
by rp_photo
EEllis wrote:What normally happens is after trying and trying a property manager feels they have nothing left to address parking issues but contract with a tow company to address violators.
Towing companies often solicit property owners to contract with in return for a percentage of inflated fees. Typically this is for things that pose no hazard or business inconvenience such as parking in an empty bank lot on a Sunday. Much like with 30.06 postings, there are specific requirements for tow warning signs and many aren't up to spec. However, a CHL is more likely to honor a technically-invalid sign than a wrecker driver is.
Private property towing is where such abuse is most common. On public property, reasonable warnings and tickets are more likely first.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:39 pm
by jmra
Not going to argue about the morality of towing, but I will go out on a limb and say we don't have the whole picture of what happened.
Re: Would this have been a legal draw/shoot to stop abductio
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:29 pm
by EEllis
rp_photo wrote:EEllis wrote:What normally happens is after trying and trying a property manager feels they have nothing left to address parking issues but contract with a tow company to address violators.
Towing companies often solicit property owners to contract with in return for a percentage of inflated fees. Typically this is for things that pose no hazard or business inconvenience such as parking in an empty bank lot on a Sunday. Much like with 30.06 postings, there are specific requirements for tow warning signs and many aren't up to spec. However, a CHL is more likely to honor a technically-invalid sign than a wrecker driver is.
Private property towing is where such abuse is most common. On public property, reasonable warnings and tickets are more likely first.
Yep so lets just shoot them