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Sorry, I couldn’t resist the title.

We moved and are still opening boxes. I opened one a few days ago and found the blackjack (AKA “sap”) I carried when I was with the SO in another lifetime.

Are LEOs even allowed to carry them now? It is a 10 ½ inch, flat Bucheimer and if used properly, could be used in some situations the baton couldn’t.

With some instruction it could be used in very close quarters to gain a subject’s cooperation, or stop an attack cold, when there was not enough room to use a baton. It was also less likely to inflict a permanent injury than a steel baton.

Well, just wondering if they are still in use at all, banned by individual departments, or just considered too “old school”.

We called those "slapped" when I was working the street. The old memories.

I still have one... I carry it in my bag as they are too old skool for most departments. My uniforms from CA all had sap pockets as well. They were effective. Great for knocking on doors as well

i have one laying around as well. nice chunk of semi hard rubber with some form of metal rod core. im sure it would make a good hurts-dont-it tool.

cheezit wrote:i have one laying around as well. nice chunk of semi hard rubber with some form of metal rod core. im sure it would make a good hurts-dont-it tool.

Try a lead disc or pouch of powdered lead (may or may not be covered with rubber) attached to handle of flat spring steel (which multiplies the force), sown inside a leather cover...and it can do serious, unintended damage if the person wielding it puts too much force behind it...usually just a flick of the wrist slap that hits a bony area is enough to immobilize an arm and a blow to the head will knock someone out cold.

This one is 10 ½ long, flat made of leather with a lead disc inside at the business end.

As I said, at close quarters you could use it when you couldn’t use a baton. If you tapped someone on the elbow or shin with it, they would usually comply with instructions. You can grab it during a wrestling match when you couldn’t use a baton and it spread the force of a blow over a wider area so there was less chance of a broken bone or skull fracture.

I saw a big man draw back to punch a DPS officer one night. The officer was standing with his hand on his hip and his fingers through the loop of a blackjack in his back pocket.

Before the guy could land the punch, the officer brought the blackjack out of his pocket, up, and hit the guy under the chin. The guys knees folded and he went straight down. Out cold. That must have been like an upper-cut by a professional heavyweight boxer.

The officer took the guy to the hospital to be checked, then to jail. The man never saw what hit him. He was very cooperative and polite to all the officers though. He turned out to be a nice guy when he was sober.

If I had one like that, I would have acquired it at a gunshow in California, and stored it in a cardboard box somewhere in my closet...........if I had one like that.

the one i have looks like a very small bat. i guess its more of a billy club

The Annoyed Man wrote:If I had one like that, I would have acquired it at a gunshow in California, and stored it in a cardboard box somewhere in my closet...........if I had one like that.

Yes I understand, they are illegal to have, but mine never leaves the house. I kept a few things as mementos such as my badge, department shoulder patch and just haven’t been able to get rid of my leather.

The belt must have shrunk long ago and I have no use for the holster but I just can’t seem to get rid of them. My “Second Chance” vest also shrunk and it has a permanent home in the bottom dresser drawer. If I had something to hold the panels that would fit me, I would wear it under my shirt when I go to the range. I have had a couple of scares at shooting ranges, due to other peoples carelessness, and I think the panels would still feel good to wear at times.

The last time some yoyo turned 180 degrees from the targets and was trying to clear a jam. He didn’t noticed he had the gun pointed at me and my son until the range safety employee saw him. We were too far for him to hear us yelling but not far enough to keep us from catching a bullet if his gun had fired.

Well I guess I am done rambling. I guess that’s normal when you get old.

VoiceofReason wrote:This one is 10 ½ long, flat made of leather with a lead disc inside at the business end.

As I said, at close quarters you could use it when you couldn’t use a baton. If you tapped someone on the elbow or shin with it, they would usually comply with instructions. You can grab it during a wrestling match when you couldn’t use a baton and it spread the force of a blow over a wider area so there was less chance of a broken bone or skull fracture.

I saw a big man draw back to punch a DPS officer one night. The officer was standing with his hand on his hip and his fingers through the loop of a blackjack in his back pocket.

Before the guy could land the punch, the officer brought the blackjack out of his pocket, up, and hit the guy under the chin. The guys knees folded and he went straight down. Out cold. That must have been like an upper-cut by a professional heavyweight boxer.

The officer took the guy to the hospital to be checked, then to jail. The man never saw what hit him. He was very cooperative and polite to all the officers though. He turned out to be a nice guy when he was sober.

Now that looks like my old uniform and car....those are the shorts we wore

texanjoker wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote:This one is 10 ½ long, flat made of leather with a lead disc inside at the business end.

As I said, at close quarters you could use it when you couldn’t use a baton. If you tapped someone on the elbow or shin with it, they would usually comply with instructions. You can grab it during a wrestling match when you couldn’t use a baton and it spread the force of a blow over a wider area so there was less chance of a broken bone or skull fracture.

I saw a big man draw back to punch a DPS officer one night. The officer was standing with his hand on his hip and his fingers through the loop of a blackjack in his back pocket.

Before the guy could land the punch, the officer brought the blackjack out of his pocket, up, and hit the guy under the chin. The guys knees folded and he went straight down. Out cold. That must have been like an upper-cut by a professional heavyweight boxer.

The officer took the guy to the hospital to be checked, then to jail. The man never saw what hit him. He was very cooperative and polite to all the officers though. He turned out to be a nice guy when he was sober.

Now that looks like my old uniform and car....those are the shorts we wore

If I wore shorts it would have been cruel and unusual.

Wouldn’t need a sap or TASER though they would have been helplessly rolling around on the ground laughing.

VoiceofReason wrote:

texanjoker wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote:This one is 10 ½ long, flat made of leather with a lead disc inside at the business end.

As I said, at close quarters you could use it when you couldn’t use a baton. If you tapped someone on the elbow or shin with it, they would usually comply with instructions. You can grab it during a wrestling match when you couldn’t use a baton and it spread the force of a blow over a wider area so there was less chance of a broken bone or skull fracture.

I saw a big man draw back to punch a DPS officer one night. The officer was standing with his hand on his hip and his fingers through the loop of a blackjack in his back pocket.

Before the guy could land the punch, the officer brought the blackjack out of his pocket, up, and hit the guy under the chin. The guys knees folded and he went straight down. Out cold. That must have been like an upper-cut by a professional heavyweight boxer.

The officer took the guy to the hospital to be checked, then to jail. The man never saw what hit him. He was very cooperative and polite to all the officers though. He turned out to be a nice guy when he was sober.

Now that looks like my old uniform and car....those are the shorts we wore

If I wore shorts it would have been cruel and unusual.

Wouldn’t need a sap or TASER though they would have been helplessly rolling around on the ground laughing.

Shorts were the bomb on beach patrol. The view was sometimes amazing. Depending on the beach one could be super busy with drunk parolees, ect. Ahhh good times.

I researched that photo and it was from an old article on saps and is from SO CAL. Seeing the names they interviewed and rank at the time suggests this was 10 years ago or more.

http://www.weapons-universe.com/Persona ... lubs.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the winter we wore light gray felt Stetsons. A drunk sat on mine one night.

I opened the door to put him in the car and he sat down before I could get it out of the way.

I had just saved his bacon too. I grabbed him just as he was about to walk in front of a car doing about 60.

VoiceofReason wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:If I had one like that, I would have acquired it at a gunshow in California, and stored it in a cardboard box somewhere in my closet...........if I had one like that.

Yes I understand, they are illegal to have, but mine never leaves the house. I kept a few things as mementos such as my badge, department shoulder patch and just haven’t been able to get rid of my leather.

The belt must have shrunk long ago and I have no use for the holster but I just can’t seem to get rid of them. My “Second Chance” vest also shrunk and it has a permanent home in the bottom dresser drawer. If I had something to hold the panels that would fit me, I would wear it under my shirt when I go to the range. I have had a couple of scares at shooting ranges, due to other peoples carelessness, and I think the panels would still feel good to wear at times.

The last time some yoyo turned 180 degrees from the targets and was trying to clear a jam. He didn’t noticed he had the gun pointed at me and my son until the range safety employee saw him. We were too far for him to hear us yelling but not far enough to keep us from catching a bullet if his gun had fired.

Well I guess I am done rambling. I guess that’s normal when you get old.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:

(A) blackjack;

(B) nightstick;

(C) mace;

(D) tomahawk.

Looks like ya just can't go walking around with it in your pocket...lol

RogueUSMC wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:If I had one like that, I would have acquired it at a gunshow in California, and stored it in a cardboard box somewhere in my closet...........if I had one like that.

Yes I understand, they are illegal to have, but mine never leaves the house. I kept a few things as mementos such as my badge, department shoulder patch and just haven’t been able to get rid of my leather.

The belt must have shrunk long ago and I have no use for the holster but I just can’t seem to get rid of them. My “Second Chance” vest also shrunk and it has a permanent home in the bottom dresser drawer. If I had something to hold the panels that would fit me, I would wear it under my shirt when I go to the range. I have had a couple of scares at shooting ranges, due to other peoples carelessness, and I think the panels would still feel good to wear at times.

The last time some yoyo turned 180 degrees from the targets and was trying to clear a jam. He didn’t noticed he had the gun pointed at me and my son until the range safety employee saw him. We were too far for him to hear us yelling but not far enough to keep us from catching a bullet if his gun had fired.

Well I guess I am done rambling. I guess that’s normal when you get old.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:

(A) blackjack;

(B) nightstick;

(C) mace;

(D) tomahawk.

Looks like ya just can't go walking around with it in your pocket...lol

I carried:
(A) blackjack;

(B) nightstick;

(C) mace;

I would bet if I had carried a (D) tomahawk, I would have encountered very little resistance.

Can you imagine a cop walking into a bar with a tomahawk on his belt?