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This is about as "off topic" as it can get on a gun forum, but I know lots of our members are current/former LEO's who may have some insight on how I can help a friend. An acquaintance of mine called me. She has been in a 20 year marriage to a guy that is a couple bricks short of normal. After our conversation, I am concerned for her. The guy is a control freak and has always been very secretive about himself and his past. He began acting even more secretive the past year. She found out some things that make it clear it's really time to leave the relationship. He may even be a threat. He once told her he "may have been" a suspect in a murder of a woman before they were married. The case was never solved. When she asked him recently if he had any life insurance on her, his reaction made her uncomfortable and he said "Only $5K". Yeah, right. She resides in Johnson County and needs legal advice. She wants to find out how to run a thorough background check on him to find out what he has been hiding about himself or is that something she should leave up to the lawyer to do? Does anyone know who may be able to recommend a good divorce lawyer in Johnson County? This lady is so clueless. She is trusting and doesn't like conflict so he was always able to deflect or intimidate her when she asked too many questions. She belongs in an episode of "Who the bleep did I marry?"

Just curious..... Can you take out life insurance on the life of another adult, without that adult having to sign the forms?

The Annoyed Man wrote:Just curious..... Can you take out life insurance on the life of another adult, without that adult having to sign the forms?

I was wondering the same thing. I don't think that can be done legitimately.

I signed my wife up for life insurance without her involvement. However, it was a rider on my supplemental life insurance at work.

If the above wife has $5k in life insurance, it is probably a similar situation. Basically, when you take a policy on yourself you can usually have a very inexpensive rider for a small policy on a spouse or children that is intended to provide for burial expenses AKA "final expenses".

Attorneys can engage investigators to take a look at spouses. If the OP gets a good divorce attorney, the background check issue should be an easy part of that deal.

Back a very long time ago my late wife (a former life agent) told me tales of the depression era when people would take out insurance policies on total strangers, like the wino that lived in the alley down the street that was sure to die from exposure any day now, which lead to some of the first laws and rules concerning health checks and "insurable interest." Even then, in the 70s, it was still possible to take out an insurance policy on a total stranger without their knowing, but the insurance companies had plenty of outs and protections, such as that insurable interest, so if you insured the guy down the block who you were sure was going to have a heart attack if he chased the kids out of his yard one more time, and you were right, they could say you did not have an insurable interest, and not only would they not pay you, but you wouldn't even get your premiums back.

An acquaintance of ours who was deeply involved in the study of astrology and numerology became convinced that he was not long for this world, so he took out a big policy and paid one premium, and then promptly died of an aneurism, and the insurance company fought against paying for a long time, but in the end could not prove that he had any knowledge of his medical condition and eventually was ruled against and paid up. The law judge at the hearing stated that it was too bad that the company lost that bet, but that all insurance, despite the best actuarial tables, was merely gambling, with the insured betting that something was going to happen and the insuror betting it wouldn't.

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As Jumping Frog said, attorney or private investigator, and better the attorney's PI, so that all the bases are covered.

jimlongley wrote:Back a very long time ago my late wife (a former life agent) told me tales of the depression era when people would take out insurance policies on total strangers, like the wino that lived in the alley down the street that was sure to die from exposure any day now, which lead to some of the first laws and rules concerning health checks and "insurable interest." Even then, in the 70s, it was still possible to take out an insurance policy on a total stranger without their knowing, but the insurance companies had plenty of outs and protections, such as that insurable interest, so if you insured the guy down the block who you were sure was going to have a heart attack if he chased the kids out of his yard one more time, and you were right, they could say you did not have an insurable interest, and not only would they not pay you, but you wouldn't even get your premiums back.

An acquaintance of ours who was deeply involved in the study of astrology and numerology became convinced that he was not long for this world, so he took out a big policy and paid one premium, and then promptly died of an aneurism, and the insurance company fought against paying for a long time, but in the end could not prove that he had any knowledge of his medical condition and eventually was ruled against and paid up. The law judge at the hearing stated that it was too bad that the company lost that bet, but that all insurance, despite the best actuarial tables, was merely gambling, with the insured betting that something was going to happen and the insuror betting it wouldn't.

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As Jumping Frog said, attorney or private investigator, and better the attorney's PI, so that all the bases are covered.

Betting on one turn of the cards is fraught with difficulties but betting with the odds on a very large number of turns of the cards results in very predictable results. That's what actuarial science is all about.

There are a couple of episodes of American Greed dealing with insurance scams, buying insurance on others, then hastening their demise somehow. I don't think there is a problem buying insurance on a spouse without their involvement, at least in small face amounts.

JALLEN wrote:

jimlongley wrote:Back a very long time ago my late wife (a former life agent) told me tales of the depression era when people would take out insurance policies on total strangers, like the wino that lived in the alley down the street that was sure to die from exposure any day now, which lead to some of the first laws and rules concerning health checks and "insurable interest." Even then, in the 70s, it was still possible to take out an insurance policy on a total stranger without their knowing, but the insurance companies had plenty of outs and protections, such as that insurable interest, so if you insured the guy down the block who you were sure was going to have a heart attack if he chased the kids out of his yard one more time, and you were right, they could say you did not have an insurable interest, and not only would they not pay you, but you wouldn't even get your premiums back.

An acquaintance of ours who was deeply involved in the study of astrology and numerology became convinced that he was not long for this world, so he took out a big policy and paid one premium, and then promptly died of an aneurism, and the insurance company fought against paying for a long time, but in the end could not prove that he had any knowledge of his medical condition and eventually was ruled against and paid up. The law judge at the hearing stated that it was too bad that the company lost that bet, but that all insurance, despite the best actuarial tables, was merely gambling, with the insured betting that something was going to happen and the insuror betting it wouldn't.

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As Jumping Frog said, attorney or private investigator, and better the attorney's PI, so that all the bases are covered.

Betting on one turn of the cards is fraught with difficulties but betting with the odds on a very large number of turns of the cards results in very predictable results. That's what actuarial science is all about.

There are a couple of episodes of American Greed dealing with insurance scams, buying insurance on others, then hastening their demise somehow. I don't think there is a problem buying insurance on a spouse without their involvement, at least in small face amounts.

Of course, the house does have the advantage.

jimlongley wrote:
Of course, the house does have the advantage.

INSURANCE, n. An ingenious modern game of chance in which the player is permitted to enjoy the comfortable conviction that he is beating the man who keeps the table. -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

To do a background check on him - http://www.publicdata.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or http://www.beenverified.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The information on these websites/databases comes from open sources.

Johnson County Attorney - try http://www.texasbar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and use the search function to search attorneys in Johnson County. Don't use the internet for legal advice.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

The Annoyed Man wrote:Just curious..... Can you take out life insurance on the life of another adult, without that adult having to sign the forms?

Yep. Do it every day as part of work. The bank I work for has insurance policies on all key employees. The insurance company doesn't care as long as the premium is paid. Now trying to collect especially under shady circumstances might be a different matter. But yes it can be done. Easy peasy.

Syntyr wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Just curious..... Can you take out life insurance on the life of another adult, without that adult having to sign the forms?

Yep. Do it every day as part of work. The bank I work for has insurance policies on all key employees. The insurance company doesn't care as long as the premium is paid. Now trying to collect especially under shady circumstances might be a different matter. But yes it can be done. Easy peasy.

I suspect that the key word here is "key." The writing of "key man policies" in most states is quite different than the possibly misleading broad answer -- "Yep" -- given here to TAM's question. The test usually comes down to, as suggested above by Jim Longley, "insurable interest."

Jim

b322da wrote:

Syntyr wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Just curious..... Can you take out life insurance on the life of another adult, without that adult having to sign the forms?

Yep. Do it every day as part of work. The bank I work for has insurance policies on all key employees. The insurance company doesn't care as long as the premium is paid. Now trying to collect especially under shady circumstances might be a different matter. But yes it can be done. Easy peasy.

I suspect that the key word here is "key." The writing of "key man policies" in most states is quite different than the possibly misleading broad answer -- "Yep" -- given here to TAM's question. The test usually comes down to, as suggested above by Jim Longley, "insurable interest."

Jim

Back on topic, we were talking about spouses. I think there's an insurable interest there.

To the Original Poster - suggest that your friend get in touch with the local police department or the Johnson Co SO. They can give her a referral to the local women's shelter. The shelter will have the names/numbers of attorneys that help the shelter's clients with legal situations, either pro bono or at very low cost. The shelter can also, through one of their law enforcement associates, help with the criminal background check if that's warranted. If the officer does not think that it's a criminal matter, the attorney can help acquire the background check.

It sounds as if your friend may need some place safe to go rather quickly - that's why a contact with the women's shelter (either in Cleburne, or Women's Haven in Fort Worth, would be warranted).

Good luck!

n5wd wrote:To the Original Poster - suggest that your friend get in touch with the local police department or the Johnson Co SO. They can give her a referral to the local women's shelter. The shelter will have the names/numbers of attorneys that help the shelter's clients with legal situations, either pro bono or at very low cost. The shelter can also, through one of their law enforcement associates, help with the criminal background check if that's warranted. If the officer does not think that it's a criminal matter, the attorney can help acquire the background check.

It sounds as if your friend may need some place safe to go rather quickly - that's why a contact with the women's shelter (either in Cleburne, or Women's Haven in Fort Worth, would be warranted).

Good luck!

I agree with this

Thank you to all who have posted and responded privately! Some excellent advice here.

As for how he could get life insurance on her without her knowledge, she gave him a blanket power of attorney years ago so he could handle the multiple investments he was doing. He convinced her this was needed. Again; Yeah, right! I told her I would immediately revoke that if I was her.