TexasCHLforum.com

Keoughan was surrounded by the police, eventually being arrested for disorderly conduct and displaying a weapon in a manner calculated to cause alarm.
What is the deffinition of "in a manner calculated to alarm?" I haven't been able to find one.

it is doubtful there is a cut-and-dry definition.

I would guess that it is basically how someone else perceives it, and if someone calls the cops for it, the cops will (likely) assume it was calculated to alarm, even if you were well within your rights how you were carrying.

I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it.

MeMelYup wrote:Keoughan was surrounded by the police, eventually being arrested for disorderly conduct and displaying a weapon in a manner calculated to cause alarm.
What is the deffinition of "in a manner calculated to alarm?" I haven't been able to find one.

There was some discussion in a previous thread viewtopic.php?f=129&t=70835&p=882400&hi ... rm#p882400" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My take of it is "alarming" someone is causing fear, distress or shock. As previous stated, there is no legal definition to my knowledge. I think that it is too vague so it may have to go to trial.
I think the "calculate" part is more important. I believe that shows intent, so unless they can prove that the person calculated to cause alarm, then he is not guilty. IANAL, etc.

The term is not defined in the code. When the police contact someone who is displaying a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place, they need probable cause to believe the person did so intentionally in a manner calculated to alarm in order to arrest. That is a subjective term.

I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

jbarn wrote:I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

If this is true, why not have a law against open carry of a long gun? Expect when at the range or while hunting.

WildBill wrote:

jbarn wrote:I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

If this is true, why not have a law against open carry of a long gun? Expect when at the range or while hunting.

Are you really asking the question or questioning the validity of my belief? If the latter, I don't see how your question invalidates my belief.

What do YOU envision "calculated to alarm" looks like, if you think my belief is wrong?

jbarn wrote:

WildBill wrote:

jbarn wrote:I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

If this is true, why not have a law against open carry of a long gun? Expect when at the range or while hunting.

Are you really asking the question or questioning the validity of my belief? If the latter, I don't see how your question invalidates my belief.

What do YOU envision "calculated to alarm" looks like, if you think my belief is wrong?

I am asking the question. If all open carry in a mall causes alarm, the why not have a law against open carry in a mall?

Yes, I am challenging the belief that the simple act of carrying a rifle in a mall automatically means the person is calculating to alarm the public.

You state that A, carrying automatically causes B, alarm. That small leap is why the law states that one must calculate to cause alarm.

I envision "calculated to alarm" as a guy with an AR-15 holding the rifle as he would if he were going to shoot. Hiding behind cover and peering around a corner and moving from place to place like he was on a combat mission. Crawling on the ground and hiding under a chair or table. I would consider these examples to be calculating to cause alarm. To me, they are much different than carrying a rifle on their back with a sling.

WildBill wrote:

jbarn wrote:I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

If this is true, why not have a law against open carry of a long gun? Expect when at the range or while hunting.

If the OC crowd continues on their current path, that will become the case in Texas.

jbarn wrote:The term is not defined in the code. When the police contact someone who is displaying a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place, they need probable cause to believe the person did so intentionally in a manner calculated to alarm in order to arrest. That is a subjective term.

I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

Should a reasonable person refrain from praying in Arabic in public? After all, it might cause alarm in folks due to past events. The media ran a lot of stories about terrorists who spoke Arabic.

*I am NOT making this a discussion about religion, merely using it as an analogy.*

jmra wrote:I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it.

Yes, and all you have to do to prove it is convince 12 people to agree with you.

jmra wrote:I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it.

IOW, it is what the arresting officer/s say it is.

Does the term "reasonable person" apply to this discussion?

Oldgringo wrote:

jmra wrote:I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it.

IOW, it is what the arresting officer/s say it is.

It's kinda' like the difference between being intoxicated and impaired.

WildBill wrote:

jbarn wrote:I believe that a reasonable person knows that people will be alarmed if he carries a rifle across his body down at the mall. After all, the media is abuzz with stories of mall shootings, school shootings, etc. If you knowing doing "A" will alarm others, yet you do "A" anyway, it is not much if a leap to believe that you intended to alarm by doing "A".

If this is true, why not have a law against open carry of a long gun? Expect when at the range or while hunting.

That will probably happen thanks to all the OC fools running around doing this