TexasCHLforum.com

(Admins if this needs to be in another sub forum let me know)

Ok please bear with me. I tend to be rather long winded. But here is a honest story of how I started carrying to the present. And not all of this makes me look smart but I am not going to pretend to be something Im not. So if I do something stupid I will tell you like you will see in this post. Ok as of late I have been having discussions with some fellow CHL'ers about methods of carry, how we started carrying and how we have changed or not changed the way we carry and what we are still learning. And the conversation got me thinking. When I was new to all this I wasted a LOT of time trying to figure what works.

I am 40. Started carrying when I got my CHL at 30 I guess it was. Before that I had been around firearms all my life. Guns were nothing new to me but carry was. At 22 years old (years before I had a CHL and started to carry) I did some reserve work as a police officer and during that time when I carried off duty I wore my fullsize custom tacticool tricked out 1911 on the waistband under a casual dress coat. Cool right? Umm nope, not really. I did this even in the Texas summer. Now I thought this was how a police officer was supposed to carry out of uniform. (what did I know at 22 anyway) Gun on my strong side, badge in front of my gun. Why did I do this? Well lets see....probably because I grew up watching cop movies, watching my dad and stuff so I thought...oh yea look the role. Smart huh? Yeah lets draw attention to myself that I am carrying a gun in 110 degree Texas heat under a hot jacket. I am not Walker Texas Ranger. So what was the result? When carrying that way I was 1) miserably hot, 2) sweaty, 3) always shifting my gun because guess what!?? I had a crappy belt! and then number 3) I looked like a 22 year old off duty police officer ...no wait....I looked like an idiot carrying a gun under a hot jacket. Was dumb guys and gals. Real dumb and embarrassing that I thought that was normal.

So after I stopped reserving, years went by without carrying. Guns stayed in the safe or went to the range to kept up my shooting skills. When I hit 30 I got my CHL. I remembered my youth where I was a dork and carried in the silly manner that I did. So now I'm not a police officer but a law abiding citizen that has his CHL and needs to be discreet. No problem right? Wrong. Once again its a case of "I know everything and how to carry" Well folks I simply didn't even though I thought I did. This time around I started off as most of us do. Taking a CHL class, then thinking I know exactly how to carry. For me it was trial and error that wuld be years in the making. Now I will admit I wasnt near as goofy as before in my hot jacket and tricked out 1911 brick on my side (no guys not knocking the 1911 so settle down).

This time around I went with the Kimber Pro Carry compact 1911 or whatever it was called (btw I hated that gun). Size wise this seemed better. However I still made two bad choices. First the belt I wore was a thin dress belt. Second the holster was a paddle holster. Neither of these worked good for me with that gun. I ended up selling the Kimber and got a G17. This time I had a better belt and holster. My belt was made for gun rigs this time.

Ta da! Great story right? Well its not over. Here is a problem I ran into. And I it took me a while to realize this was a problem for me.

The "Stacking Phenomenon"

The what? "Oh wise and mighty Maximus....do tell us what you are talking about!" This term is just what I started calling a problem I realized I kept repeating. I would start off with a small gun. Say a smaller gun like a LCR, J-Frame, or G26. I would get this gun. Buy a ton of leather for it and mags, parts, etc. (I mean we all know that zombie apocalypse is coming right so stack up on stuff for your gun! -rolls eyes-) Then I would see a new toy...I mean gun..and think to myself "Well this gun is only slightly bigger than my G26! I will carry this!" So once again I get all this gear and then later I see a new toy...I mean gun and I get it...usually trading away a gun plus cash for it. Finally the next thing I know I'm trying to CCW a S&W 500 with 10 inch barrel. Ok, ok I exaggerate but some things I carried were pretty ridiculous. I found I kept doing this. That is what I called the "stacking phenomenon"

Here is why it was bad for me. I would end up with a cannon...I mean gun...that was so big I left it at home because it was not comfortable to carry. I am not talking about the 'A gun is supposed to be comforting not comfortable' discussion. This is far beyond that line of reasoning. It took me a lot of trial and error to see what worked and made sense.

After years of testing gear and guns I have found how I commonly like to carry. I am a big guy. Yes this means 'big boned', 'chubby', dare I say..'fat'. Lets call it what it is folks. Sure I am at the point where I am finally working on becoming more fit and healthy but more on that when I do a "How to eat healthy with Maximus" post. Oh wait...no sub forum for that. Oh well. Sometimes a belt rig just doesn't work right on my body. OWB has worked better then IWB. Believe me folks I have boxes of holsters I have tried. Some work. Some don't. Anyways. This plays a very important part in how I carry. Same can be said for the tiny skinny person. Go with what works.

(I have talked so much I am afraid Charles will ban me for boring you all to death so I will try and speed it up.)

For example, I started bag carrying a lot of the time. Now hold up...I know what you are thinking. That is a very unsafe way to carry. My bag might get stolen, I might lose it, it might fall open, etc. Well sure. Anything can happen. Depends on what bag and how you carry it. Just like a belt holster it is how and what you use. Why would I bag carry? Well I am in TEXAS. Summers here can be brutal and we all know it. Before you laugh at me now, let me explain this. Bag carry I have found is great but here is the deal. As I said you need the right bag. None of this ninja tactical molle stuff for me. You need a good quality bag. You need a dedicated gun area you can access fast that covers the trigger properly and safely. Also your bag cannot leave your person. Period. No leaving it in the car in sight, or in restaurant chair while you go to the restroom, have your wife or kid watch it for you, etc. You own it.

Then how do I carry? When I do need to carry a bag I have one that doesn't look anything like I might have a gun in it. Its not very noticeable to people and low profile. I will post what I carry in a different post later. However it has a dedicated holster and I can draw my gun very fast. No joke. It's also slung over my shoulder with a good strap. I can sling the bag (its a small bag by the way) up to my chest where I can access my firearm faster. Do I advocate bag carry for everyone. Heck no. I still prefer and think strong side IWB/OWB is the way to go in a perfect world. But for me the world isn't perfect. And this works for me. But pocket carry as well works for me too. Again that depends on my pants. But with my bag I have a set up where I can transition my gun from my bag to my waist or pocket complete with holster if need be and do it fast. I even practice this. Why? Because you will react like you train.


What I am about to say is my opinion only. So take what works from it or just ignore me. Promise I wont get offended.

I don't know everything about CCW. I don't think I am an expert of any kind of anything. I just think I have some real world knowledge and have learned from silly decisions I have made and have tried to improve upon that. And I am STILL learning. I'm writing all this because I had to figure this all out myself the hard way. When I started carrying back in my 'jacket' days there was no TexasCHL Forum or even internet for that matter. No online communities to help you figure out ideas. I mention all this because maybe one person might find something useful in all this. You may not.

Carry the gun you are comfortable carrying. Carry it in a method that works for you. We are responsible for what we do. We need to do it smartly. I didn't. Maybe sometimes I still don't but I try. I used to carry these tricked out handguns and one day I thought to myself "God forbid I had to defend myself do I REALLY want this $5000.00 custom 1911 on my side when things go bad?" I would not. I don't judge anyone who might. Its your money and your gun. But I don't want to look like the jacket in summer wearing fool I started out with my tacticool 1911 and have to explain this in a court of law one day. No thanks.

If you have made it this far thanks...actually thank you very much... for letting me talk away. Over the course of 10 years I have refined and simplified my carry method. Its not perfect. But its a heck of a lot better. And I am still perfecting it. I realized if my CCW gun was too big I wouldn't carry it. And I didn't. What is the point of that? I love big toys...oops..I mean guns. They are fun to shoot, but not always fun to carry. I have made some silly mistakes and hopefully my blunt honesty might help you avoid the things I did especially when I was younger.

Not that long ago it hit me. "Its not just me. As a Texas CHL holder I represent everyone else that holds a CHL. Smarten up. Carry smart, carry safe. And try and be prepared and responsible" I think that's best any of us can do in these current times. It wont take much if anything for the anti-gun groups to try and take away the freedoms and rights we have.

That's just what I wanted to say. Have a good one folks!

Wow that was quite a dissertation JP and as a new CHL applicant (don't have it quite yet) I appreciated it.

Unlike you I have had the benefit of surfing till I'm blind on CC, and there are quite a few things I've picked-up from it but of course as yet have no experience. Things like "if the gun's not comfortable to carry, you won't" and especially that everyone seems to buy-and-try many multiple types of holsters and carry methods if not handguns as you.

I have an unusual body type myself, wearing cargo shorts all summer and (too-tight) jeans all winter here in TX. No carry method would work for both it seems though I like the idea of pocket carry with the shorts and cross-draw or shoulder holster with the jeans (guns don't fit discretely at my waist). I do have a tommysgunpack "fanny pack" but am not sure that it's "me". Bottom line is not what's "cool" (not Temp/Farenheit cool but "tacticool") but rather what is most comfortable while being discrete. I ain't found it yet.

Liked your story though. BTW it's "bear with me" not bare!

I've gone full circle with carry weapon and holster. Started with a baby Glock (G27) and a very simple/inexpensive IWB holster. Have tried a number of different handguns and holsters. Find myself back with a baby Glock (G26) and the same holster I started with. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution.

TomsTXCHL wrote:Liked your story though. BTW it's "bear with me" not bare!

Well it was 2 am. Bare...bear... Be thankful I could even type

If off body carry works for you, great, but before you think you've solved all your problems. I would suggest trying your carry method in a force on force test. (Airsoft is great for this.) You may find it is very difficult to access your weapon while aggressively moving to minimize exposure to an attacker. Many people find their carry location or holster lets them down(like your wimpy belt, ridgid belt is critical) when moving in reaction to an attacker in a force on force scenario. The stand and deliver method of weapon access tends to get you hit before you even have finished accessing your weapon versus moving to reduce exposure and reset your opponent's ODA loop. This is why appendex carry has gain in use. It also shows why ankle and small of the back have real issues. If you bag flops around while you move the weapon access and draw will be impeded. YMMV and good luck on you journey of discovery.

ammoboy2 wrote:If off body carry works for you, great, but before you think you've solved all your problems. I would suggest trying your carry method in a force on force test. (Airsoft is great for this.) You may find it is very difficult to access your weapon while aggressively moving to minimize exposure to an attacker. Many people find their carry location or holster lets them down(like your wimpy belt, ridgid belt is critical) when moving in reaction to an attacker in a force on force scenario. The stand and deliver method of weapon access tends to get you hit before you even have finished accessing your weapon versus moving to reduce exposure and reset your opponent's ODA loop. This is why appendex carry has gain in use. It also shows why ankle and small of the back have real issues. If you bag flops around while you move the weapon access and draw will be impeded. YMMV and good luck on you journey of discovery.

I can actually access my weapon very fast and effective when using the bag carry method I employ. I have the bags guys carry that flop around. Thats no good at all. I found a few people I know use bag carry and some are good and some are not so good. But they are hesitant to admit the use that carry style because people are going to point about belt carry and all that.

The rig when I do carry OWB is made for a gun. Leather with a polymer insert. But I dont always like to or am not able to carry that way. If I am out on the ranch its a no brainer. Urban carry I had to get a bit more creative. The point of my post is not advocating bag carry just that I found something that works for me and that years ago I was just not going about concealed carry in an effective manner. Thanks for the comments too guys.

If I could wear cargo shorts all-year-long I think that would be best for me, because then pocket carry is perfect in that hands-in-pockets is a common stance anyway for me, and how much better can it get than to already have your hand on your weapon if, say, in one of those Houston "convenience" stores.



I guess the easy choice is "cargo pants in winter too" at least when I leave the ranch, which frankly is not all that often. Or I buy baggy jeans from now on...

maximus2161

Not hurting my feelings, its all about what you find comfortable with both in carry comfort and usability. I just commented upon it is common for people to carry and think they are good to go in a conflict situation when they truly are not. The firearm is important but just having it does not make you fast, accurate, or effective. Some CHLs may also have never truly practiced drawing with or without a cover garment. WHen it hits the fan it is too late. I was just wanting to make the point that accessing can be more difficult to impossible for off -body carry when moving if you are not prepared for it, the system is defective, or you haven't practiced.

Another issue to be wary of is to many carry systems, you want to keep limited because when you need it, you do not want to be thinking "now where is my gun?"

maximus2161 wrote:Carry the gun you are comfortable carrying. Carry it in a method that works for you.

And practice how you carry!

If we could all learn this we would be way ahead of the game. The problem is so many people want "everyone" to carry "their way" because the are always right.

ammoboy2 wrote:I just commented upon it is common for people to carry and think they are good to go in a conflict situation when they truly are not.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I disagree with your premise. At least *I* (would/will) have no misconceptions about my carry situation: I have no doubt but that I will not (ever!) be fully prepared for a conflict. I only hope that having the CCW will work to my advantage if push comes to shove, so to speak.

While I completely agree to practice, practice, practice, I don't think practice will ever make "perfect" or even necessarily "good to go" as evidenced by so many LEO shootings in the news (at least here in Austin) lately. Heck if trained LEOs don't always handle things wonderfully we civilians can only hope we do right if/when our time comes.

I just like to talk about things like this. Its not a 'My way is right and yours is not' discussion. For me, it generates ideas and hopefully we can encourage each other to think. I always learn something different and new. And yes lots of practice but thats also a good point about being prepared. I run scenarios in my head all the time. For example if I am in the mall and walking around I might see someone and think "What if they just whipped out a gun and started firing right now at me?" Maybe sounds morbid but I think like that. I don't obsess or walk around paranoid but I'm not in condition white either.

Summer is almost here so I go to shorts and flip flops and that limits my CCW. This is usually when I got a bag carry method. Plus I carry a lot of stuff I don't want in my pockets. Oh and I am starting a class at TCC this summer from July till December so I cant carry on the campus and I just don't want my gun in my truck for 8 hours even secured so I got to figure that out now.

I mentioned earlier I have friends I get together with and they have CHL's and we sit around and talk about what we carry and how. Sitting around over a lunch with a couple of guys we talked about this and I asked who was carrying. Only two out five us had our CCW on us. And no we were not drinking or someplace that was 51% or anyplace a handgun was prohibited. That's a personal choice to not carry because there are times I haven't or couldn't. But when I asked why....and HONESTLY why I got told "Man I dont feel like packing my gun cuz its just too heavy" and "Well its my trunk." That prompted a discussion on carry methods.

carlson1 wrote:

maximus2161 wrote:Carry the gun you are comfortable carrying. Carry it in a method that works for you.

And practice how you carry!

If we could all learn this we would be way ahead of the game. The problem is so many people want "everyone" to carry "their way" because the are always right.

Carl you are right my friend about people trying to impress the way they carry is how you should carry too. I do like hearing about how and what someone else prefers to carry but I get annoyed when someone is telling me why my way is wrong. Very true.

Kind of my breakdown:

In cooler weather or when its comfortable to wear jeans a lot I will pocket carry most of the time. Occasionally will belt carry but not as often as pocket carry.

In warmer and hot weather I usually have to move to a secured bag carry method. If I dont I wouldnt carry most likely.

maximus2161 wrote: Summer is almost here so I go to shorts and flip flops and that limits my CCW. This is usually when I got a bag carry method. Plus I carry a lot of stuff I don't want in my pockets. Oh and I am starting a class at TCC this summer from July till December so I cant carry on the campus and I just don't want my gun in my truck for 8 hours even secured so I got to figure that out now.

The shorts/flip flops limit you in other ways besides just your CCW.

Can you run in flip flops? Have you practiced it? Will you have time to kick them off if you need to run? Are your feet tough enough to run over gravel or other debris (glass?) on the ground?
Don't get me wrong - I love me some flip flops! But I have a mental debate with myself every time I get ready to leave the house when the weather is warm enough for flip flops or sandals. I know that when I choose to wear the flip flops, I'm putting some limitations on myself if I get into a situation where "escape/evade" is the ideal course of action.

Just something else to ponder.....

If I was only allowed to give one word of advice on people new to carrying, it would be "GUNBELT".

Not a stiff belt, or a work belt, or a Ranger belt, or an Amish belt: a GUNBELT. One that is designed and sold commercially to be a gunbelt. It is the single largest key to comfortable carry.

I've comfortably carried a crummy holster on a good gunbelt. I've been uncomfortable carrying a great holster on a crummy belt. Of course, a good holster on a good gunbelt is a delight, but the gunbelt is the more important of the two for comfort.

Discoqueen: It seem like my comment was taken out of context about the flip flops. I dont wear them every single day all summer but I am not going to not wear them because I may not run that great when I need to get away. Sure I think about it but not to the point where I am worried to wear sandals or flip flops. Just a personal decision for me. I move quicker in regular sneakers. But I mentioned Im a big dude so me running ANYPLACE is not likely. (yeah Im joking..a little) But yeah that IS a valid point you bring up. Flip flops arent great for moving fast. It is what it is. :)

Jumping Frog: TOTALLY AGREE 110% on a gunbelt. I have a Wilderness Instructors belt, several belts made by The Beltman that are polymer reinforced and that makes such a major difference even in a belt that may be well made and thick but without the benefit of a stiffiner. My Beltman belts I have had for years and they are great. Combine that with a good holster and its no issue for OWB or IWB.