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CHL Application Denied
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:27 am
by Osborne2510
Last summer my roommates and I had an end of summer party at our house in Tulsa. Things got out of hand and the cops showed up because of a noise complaint. I was the only one responsible enough to talk with the police to make sure nothing went bad. This unfortunately was a mistake because the cop I was speaking to after doing everything he asked of my like kicking everyone out and turning off the music still decided to cite me for disturbing the peace. I had to go to court and do all that and I ended up only getting a $100 fine. I initially thought it was going to be on my background so when I applied I out it in my past criminal history. When it came time for my background check, nearly 3 months into the process, I had to go to the court to get paperwork and it turns out nothing was on record and the only paperwork I got was a receipt that I had paid the fine. Texas DPS had to call Tulsa to see the maximum jail sentence to determine if I was eligible and since disturbing the peace with noise is 30 days jail I was denied my CHL. Now, my questions are:
1. Do I appeal? I'm in Tulsa for school for 8 more months then I'm back in Texas and do not have the money for a lawyer at the moment.
2. Should I wait 4 more years to re-apply?
3. Should I give it a little time and re-apply but leave off the disturbing the peace since its not on my background?
Thanks
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:16 pm
by Keith B
Disturbing the Peace in Oklahoma is a midemeanor. For a noise violation the sentence is up to 30 days in jail. It varies by type of disturbance. The offencse in Oklahoma is basically a disorderly conduct violation. In Texas that falls under section 42.01 of the penal code. Disorderly conduct is a disqualifier for a Texas CHL until time expiration which will be 5 years from the date of conviction.
GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:
......
(8) has not, in the five years preceding the date of application, been convicted of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense or of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense;
Since you have already listed it and were denied you can't really go back reapply without it listed. In your case, I would suggest getting a letter from the court clerk in the county where you where charged that shows they have no record of the incident and send that in with an appeal. It is very possible they will take the letter as evidence it was dismissed or dropped and issue your license.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:05 pm
by iAmSam
Keith B wrote:Since you have already listed it and were denied you can't really go back reapply without it listed. In your case, I would suggest getting a letter from the court clerk in the county where you where charged that shows they have no record of the incident and send that in with an appeal. It is very possible they will take the letter as evidence it was dismissed or dropped and issue your license.
If that doesn't work, you're probably eligible for a Florida concealed weapons license and should be able to use the CHL-100 as proof of training. Florida only seems to disqualify misdemeanor convictions if they're related to violence, drugs or DWI. Both Oklahoma and Texas allow carry with a Florida license.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:33 pm
by Jumping Frog
iAmSam wrote:If that doesn't work, you're probably eligible for a Florida concealed weapons license..
Or VA or AZ.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:43 pm
by WildBill
I would like to see the Texas Legislature and the DPS take a look a the Disorderly Conduct law. IMO, the list of offenses are overly broad.
I do not think a noise nuisance should be anything more than a citation.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:26 pm
by srothstein
I have to second the Fl. CHL suggestion. I don't think it should have mattered what the punishment was in OK since the offense is a disqualifier in Texas and for out of state violations they are supposed to use Texas equivalent law.
I would only appeal i fthe OK court specifically said that their lack of a record meant there was no final conviction.
And Wildbill, I think you are also correct and we might suggest looking at Disorderly conduct as a disqualifier. I am sure it was included because it covered a few weapons violations, but we might be able to get it restricted to just those violations. That would not seem to be a major change and we should be able to get it across. If we have to, I would include the fighting parts of 42.01 also, just leave out the noise and similar parts.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:29 am
by infoman
I wouldn't appeal. It's cut & dry, you don't qualify for 5 years. I would do as others said on here & get a FL permit.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:12 am
by Keith B
infoman wrote:I wouldn't appeal. It's cut & dry, you don't qualify for 5 years. I would do as others said on here & get a FL permit.
I beg to differ. If there is no record shown in the OK courts and he gets a document from the courts stating there is no record, then the case may have been dropped or dismissed. If so he should be eligible for a Texas CHL.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:17 am
by RogueUSMC
Keith B wrote:infoman wrote:I wouldn't appeal. It's cut & dry, you don't qualify for 5 years. I would do as others said on here & get a FL permit.
I beg to differ. If there is no record shown in the OK courts and he gets a document from the courts stating there is no record, then the case may have been dropped or dismissed. If so he should be eligible for a Texas CHL.
The law states 'from date of disposition', and if there is no disposition....
I'm sorry, it does not state that but it was explained to me that your time-out starts at date of final disposition...
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:18 am
by jbarn
Keith B wrote:infoman wrote:I wouldn't appeal. It's cut & dry, you don't qualify for 5 years. I would do as others said on here & get a FL permit.
I beg to differ. If there is no record shown in the OK courts and he gets a document from the courts stating there is no record, then the case may have been dropped or dismissed. If so he should be eligible for a Texas CHL.
A receipt that he paid a fine is pretry good proof of conviction, no?
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:20 am
by RogueUSMC
That is a valid point jbarn...I would still tempt to get a letter from the court.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:39 am
by Keith B
jbarn wrote:Keith B wrote:infoman wrote:I wouldn't appeal. It's cut & dry, you don't qualify for 5 years. I would do as others said on here & get a FL permit.
I beg to differ. If there is no record shown in the OK courts and he gets a document from the courts stating there is no record, then the case may have been dropped or dismissed. If so he should be eligible for a Texas CHL.
A receipt that he paid a fine is pretry good proof of conviction, no?
Depends. If he was truly charged under the OK state statute, then yes. However, it is possible he was charged under a city ordinance violation and not under the state statute. If he only paid a fine and did not go to court, then it is possible it was a city ordinance only as the court has no record of a conviction.
Here is the state statute
TITLE 21 CHAPTER 55
§1321.8
The following provisions shall apply during a state of emergency.
……..
G. "Disorderly conduct" as used in this section means a course of conduct by a person who:
1. Causes public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof,
by:
a. engaging in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior,
b. making an unreasonable noise or an offensively coarse utterance, gesture, or
display, or addressing abusive language to any person present,
§1362.
If any person shall willfully or maliciously disturb, either by day or night, the peace and quiet of
any city of the first class, town, village, neighborhood, family or person by loud or unusual
noise, or by abusive, violent, obscene or profane language, whether addressed to the party so
disturbed or some other person, or by threatening to kill, do bodily harm or injury, destroy
property, fight, or by quarreling or challenging to fight, or fighting, or shooting off any firearms,
or brandishing the same, or by running any horse at unusual speed along any street, alley,
highway or public road, he shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof,
shall be fined in any sum not to exceed One Hundred Dollars ($100.00), or by imprisonment in
the county jail not to exceed thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment, at the
discretion of the court or jury trying the same.
Not sure what city he is in, but here is OK City's ordinance
§ 34-10. Penalty.
(a)
Any person who violates any provision of this chapter shall be guilty of a Class "a" offense against the City. Any person guilty of a second or subsequent offense of violating any provision of this chapter shall be guilty of a Class "b" offense.
(b)
Each day of violation of any provision of this chapter shall constitute a single offense if the disturbance is continuous. If the disturbance is not continuous, each violation of any provision of this chapter shall constitute a separate offense, although committed on the same day.
(Code 1970, § 21-26.1; Ord. No. 17028, § 1, 1-18-83; Code 1980, § 34-10; Ord. No. 24138, § 4, 9-28-10)
So, it is possible to write it as an ordinance violation which would not have been a state violation and hence he would have no disqualifying conviction.
Bottom line, the OP needs to see if there is any indication or record of being charged and convicted under TITLE 21 CHAPTER 55 §1362 for the state. if not, then I believe he has a real good case for appeal.
Now, it may just be easier for the time being to get a FL or VA license and wait out the time on the noise violation. However, it is still going to require records showing final disposition of the case, which he already said don't exist.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:40 am
by Osborne2510
I appreciate all of yall's input. I'm gonna look into the Florida license and see what the time frame and cost will be.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:42 am
by Keith B
Osborne2510 wrote:I appreciate all of yall's input. I'm gonna look into the Florida license and see what the time frame and cost will be.
Good luck.
Re: CHL Application Denied
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:59 am
by jimlongley
jbarn wrote:Keith B wrote:infoman wrote:I wouldn't appeal. It's cut & dry, you don't qualify for 5 years. I would do as others said on here & get a FL permit.
I beg to differ. If there is no record shown in the OK courts and he gets a document from the courts stating there is no record, then the case may have been dropped or dismissed. If so he should be eligible for a Texas CHL.
A receipt that he paid a fine is pretry good proof of conviction, no?
If I had bothered to keep them, I would have two such receipts, with no record that I was ever in the court that issued the receipts.