TexasCHLforum.com

Hello everyone.

Thank you for the forum. I tried to find past posts on this topic but some were older and I understand the law that may come into play with my case was changed by the legislature in 2009.

I am a late 30s physician. From New England originally and the long story short is that I tried to commit suicide 20+ years ago in my home state by taking too many Advils. Realized after taking them that I did not want to do it and so I drove myself to the hospital and voluntarily checked my 17 year old self into the psychiatric ward at the local hospital. I should note that I was not involuntarily committed to the hospital. I was free to leave anytime I wanted during normal working hours (9am-6pm) but had to chat with the psychiatrist first for an exit interview just to have him sign his papers (pretty sure that this was strictly for liability reasons). While there, I was not restricted to the hospital grounds. My family was free to come sign me out and take me places and so I left the hospital twice during that two week period, once to go to a restaurant and once to go to a baseball game. After two weeks and after talking with my parents, I decided that I was fine and that it was time for me to leave. I met with the psychiatrist the next day and he signed my papers and I walked out.

I can and have passed the ATF background check with no problems to buy my handgun. My records may or may not be in the system (my guess is probably not because it was so long ago and the hospital no longer has the records (I checked)) but under 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4), there are no federal bars to me owning a handgun. From what I can tell, there are also no state bars to me owning a handgun. There could be a state bar to me carrying one, however. What put this issue in my mind once again is that I was already planning on getting a CHL months ago, and I apologize for having to bring up a political issue to make my point, but I think it is the clearest way to do so. The whole fracas with LT. governor candidate Patrick and his hospitalization for depression got me thinking about my chances of getting a CHL. When Patrick applied for his license in 2006/07, the current state of Texas law stated that applicants had to report voluntary psychiatric hospitalizations for the preceding 2 year period. In 2009, the Texas legislature changed the law, removing the language "preceding 2 years" from the statute and so now it reads as if all psychiatric hospitalizations need to be reported . Therefore, if I want to get a CCW, I believe that I have to report my history. IANAL (I am not a lawyer), but am I correct on this? The issue for me is that the hospital was not in Texas and no longer has the record, and if the records are also not in the NICS database, what exactly am I supposed to do? Include a personal statement giving my recollection of what happened to the best of my ability 20+ years ago and then finding a local psychiatrist to certify that this condition is in remission and not likely to reappear? I literally have no documentation of this incident. Being in the medical field, finding a colleague in psychiatry to certify me would probably not be a problem, but I would rather not have to share this with a medical colleague. Obviously I don't want to lie, however, and setting myself up for potential prosecution in the future is also not something that I am willing to do.

Here is the language on the CHL-78A form:

"Have you ever been treated and/or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and/or psychiatric
care; OR been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is
likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or
intellectual ability; OR pled innocent by reason of insanity; OR been found mentally
incompetent; OR had court ordered outpatient treatment?"

Thank you in advance for any advice that you may be able to give me.

It's great that you have overcome whatever had driven you to that measure and that you're now an M.D. Were you treated by a psychiatrist while in the facility? I know someone that attempted suicide using Tylenol and spent a short time in a facility and had some sessions with a psychologist and some group sessions. I am sure he was assessed by a psychiatrist at some point, but I don't know if that qualifies as treatment; he got his CHL with no problem. I do not know if he was compelled to put that information on his application or not. Probably doesn't help much, but there apparently was no record of it in his BG check.

puma guy wrote:It's great that you have overcome whatever had driven you to that measure and that you're now an M.D. Were you treated by a psychiatrist while in the facility? I know someone that attempted suicide using Tylenol and spent a short time in a facility and had some sessions with a psychologist and some group sessions. I am sure he was assessed by a psychiatrist at some point, but I don't know if that qualifies as treatment; he got his CHL with no problem. I do not know if he was compelled to put that information on his application or not. Probably doesn't help much, but there apparently was no record of it in his BG check.

Hi, thank you for the response and the well-wishes. The psych ward was a section of the local hospital so it was overseen by a psychiatrist. I think I saw him twice during my time there, once halfway through the two-week period for about 5 minutes and for another 5 minutes when he signed my papers at the end after I decided that it was time to leave. What confuses me is that I am not sure 100% sure that this counts as a hospitalization either, but I'm not willing to go to jail if I'm wrong. It was definitely a secure facility in that I could not just open the door and leave, but this was not because of me. It was because this was the largest hospital in a 10 county radius and was also responsible for supervising a few patients who were being involuntarily held against their will and could not leave the hospital under any circumstances. Some of them would enter in handcuffs and were handcuffed to their beds during the night. I was allowed to leave anytime I wanted on day trips between I believe 8 am and 8 pm 7 days a week, if a family member would sign me out, and I could decide to leave for good at any time during normal working hours (just so the doctor could sign the paperwork). I BELIEVE, although I am not 100% sure, that the only reason I had to meet with the doctor before leaving was because I was a minor at the time. A parent also had to come there in person to get me at the end of it, again I assume for liability reasons. The vast majority of other patients there were also there because they wanted to be there. Many stayed for a full 30 days and only left after that because their health insurance stopped paying for it. I have never smoked but I liked the fresh air and so I remember that the nurses would take a bunch of people down 4-5 times a day for smoke breaks and I would always go with them just for another opportunity to go outside. The involuntary patients were not allowed to go on these smoke breaks because there were no security guards and it would obviously be a very easy opportunity to escape.

I have bolded what I believe to be the sections of the statute which are relevant to my situation:

Texas government code 411.172 (eligibility):

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;
(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a review board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own affairs; or
(4) has entered in a criminal proceeding a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.
(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder.
---

Interestingly, I am not sure if I was ever diagnosed as having depression. If I was, like I said, there are probably no records of it. Depression is not listed as a disqualifying psychiatric disorder under (e)(5) above but I was in the psychiatric wing of a hospital so I think that is covered under (e)(2). If I am reading the statute correctly, just even checking yourself into a psychiatric ward constitutes evidence under (d)(1) of a psychiatric order or condition. I'm not a psychiatrist but that seems to me to be a bit ridiculous. Under that logic, a guy who walks in on his wife cheating on him and then checks himself into a psych ward could now be considered to have a psychiatric disorder or condition? The statute doesn't say that this "evidence" is proof in and of itself of a psychiatric condition, so it is rather poorly written.
As for my hospitalization, I am almost certain that it would not show up in any state background check because the hospital is in another state in another part of the country, no longer has records of it, and it was so long ago that it would not be in NICS, but I don't want to commit a crime and lie on the application. I'm trying to confirm only if I need to report it. Like I said, I could find a colleague who practices psychiatry to certify me but I don't have any records of what happened so a medical review board could very well still deny me.

So your friend didn't put it on the application? I suppose that means that he would be in the same boat I am if he applied after 2009 when the law was changed, right? Do you remember when he applied?

We were told in our class that you had to be hospitalized by a judge.

It sounds to me that you need to report it and I would suggest getting a letter from a psychiatrist.

Being in the medical field, finding a colleague in psychiatry to certify me would probably not be a problem, but I would rather not have to share this with a medical colleague.

Since your doctor is bound by confidentiality why would you not feel comfortable sharing this information?

He means co-worker. He doesn't want to share personal history with the whole hospital, as his co worker is not bound by oath for someone who is not his patient. I don't blame him either. Keep your business your own in the workplace.

greenex9 wrote:So your friend didn't put it on the application? I suppose that means that he would be in the same boat I am if he applied after 2009 when the law was changed, right? Do you remember when he applied?

PM Sent

Someone over 40 who voluntarily went into substance abuse treatment as a teenager would have to report it but it' shouldn't disqualify them if they're clean and sober for the past 20 years. I think you're in the sale boat. Good luck and welcome to this little nuthouse.