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Is it a crime? When someone says "I will kill you" is that a crime? I am fully aware that verbal provocation is not justified means for use of deadly force. The same person who made the threat to me first made the threat to "kick my (expletive)" When I told him I was going to get law enforcement and have him arrested that is when to threat to kill came out. This same person also made threats to "kick the (expletive)" of two of my family members who were present. Hired security at the site who happen to be off-duty LEO wearing their "official" uniforms told me that nothing can be done as it is only a threat.

I would like to give more details of this, but for now would just like the opinion(s) of some of the board members. I am not looking for legal advice - just opinions.

I would think it is a "Terroristic threat" but will wait for a more informed answer.

Sec. 22.07. TERRORISTIC THREAT. (a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:

. . .(2) place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;

Strict letter of the statute would appear to support this charge. However, the devil is in the details, primarily, how can you prove the threat was made? Family member witnesses still boil down to "he said . . . he said". If you have an LEO that witnessed the threat, or if you have video of the person making the threat, then that is hurdle one.

Second hurdle is how credible was the threat. You would need to be placed "in fear of imminent serious bodily injury", and that fear would have to be reasonable to the ordinary juror.

Easy charge to make, but much tougher to prove.

As stated I would like to be more detailed and will be seeking legal advice tomorrow. But with that said let me add that this same person made similar threats about 4 months ago and later entered my vehicle and put trash in it. The owner of the property were this occurred asked me at that time if I wanted him arrested and I declined just hoping the situation would be over. This is the first time said person has returned to the same location and pretty well picked up were he left off 4 months ago.

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions so far.

Edit to add: We had never met this person before the first incident occurred, so there is no past history of confrontations, etc. if that is of any matter to this.

Regardless of whether or not a charge will stick, you should file a report and attempt to get a restraining order. That way, you're on record as at least having issues with the guy and wanting to handle it before things get out of control. Attempting to file on the previous encounter would make this latest one the beginning of a pattern that could be more actionable.

Disclaimer: IANAL or LEO, just rational.

GJwitha45 wrote:Hired security at the site who happen to be off-duty LEO wearing their "official" uniforms told me that nothing can be done as it is only a threat.

They are wrong. I have filed for a warrant against a person who said to another, "I'm going to kill you of I see you again." and the judge signed it. The accused was arrested and charged with terroristic threat. If you are truly in fear for your life and or safety, call you local law enforcement and ask to speak to a officer or go down to their department and talk to someone direct.

The "Terroristic Threat" charge can range anywhere from a Class C misdemeanor to a State jail felony. It all depends on how it was filed and witnesses that were present. If it were in front of an officer, good bet it will be filed as a felony. My son went through this a couple of years ago. He caught a guy taking stuff out of the back of his truck and confronted him. He had called security at the apartment as well as 911. He told the guy he would whip his backside just as the security officer rounded the corner and he just happened to be an off duty LEO. They arrested my son and originally charged him with felony terroristic threat that was eventually dropped by the DA but not until he had spent thousands in legal fees.
Oh yeah, the guy that was stealing from him got an attempted theft under $50.00 charge.

Go get your advice from a lawyer. Quickly.

TexasCajun wrote:Regardless of whether or not a charge will stick, you should file a report and attempt to get a restraining order. That way, you're on record as at least having issues with the guy and wanting to handle it before things get out of control. Attempting to file on the previous encounter would make this latest one the beginning of a pattern that could be more actionable.

Disclaimer: IANAL or LEO, just rational.

Absolutely agree with this suggestion. You are creating a record of this event. When/if it happens again, there is a history for police& judge to work with.

Of course the threat is illegal. And not under Terroristic threats, but under assault. PC 22.01(a) says:

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse;
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or

So, the original threat was an assault, and it is a class C misdemeanor. Much more important, if you said you are calling the police and then the suspect made the second threat, he just committed a felony. PC 38.06 says:

Sec. 36.06. OBSTRUCTION OR RETALIATION. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly harms or threatens to harm another by an unlawful act:
(1) in retaliation for or on account of the service or status of another as a:
(A) public servant, witness, prospective witness, or informant; or
(B) person who has reported or who the actor knows intends to report the occurrence of a crime; or
(2) to prevent or delay the service of another as a:
(A) public servant, witness, prospective witness, or informant; or
(B) person who has reported or who the actor knows intends to report the occurrence of a crime.

And retaliation is a third degree felony. A little work and the officer's could have had an easy felony arrest on a good solid case.

srothstein wrote:...A little work and the officer's could have had an easy felony arrest on a good solid case.

Hey, you're working off-duty.. You've had a full week of it and signed up for the off-duty work even though you know you shoulda been back at the house getting some sleep, but....

I used to call those guys, who were working the same off-duty event that I was (on the EMS side, for me) the Three Monkeys Squad. You know: See no evil, Hear no evil, and Speak no evil...

I wouldn't pursue burdening someone's life with a felony if they were just mouthing off. However, if that person had convinced me he was really going to come after me, that would be entirely different. Unfortunately, many people simply do not think they can/will be charged for making threats and its gets to be a habit. Too bad kids graduate high school knowing more about every form of sports and social media than the laws they have to live under in society.

Thanks to all for the opinions. Hoping to see an attorney this morning. One other question regarding this whole matter. When the two off duty LEO working as private security asked for my ID and then my wives ID we showed DL and CHL. Was that the correct thing to do?

GJwitha45 wrote:Thanks to all for the opinions. Hoping to see an attorney this morning. One other question regarding this whole matter. When the two off duty LEO working as private security asked for my ID and then my wives ID we showed DL and CHL. Was that the correct thing to do?

If you were armed at the time, yes. Otherwise the CHL was not necessary (but may be an advantage to you).

sjfcontrol wrote:

GJwitha45 wrote:Thanks to all for the opinions. Hoping to see an attorney this morning. One other question regarding this whole matter. When the two off duty LEO working as private security asked for my ID and then my wives ID we showed DL and CHL. Was that the correct thing to do?

If you were armed at the time, yes. Otherwise the CHL was not necessary (but may be an advantage to you).

To further follow up on yoru question, an off-duty LEO is still a LEO, even if working another job. Per teh statute if you are asked for ID by a LEO and you are carrying, then you must present both your DL or state issued ID and your CHL.