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Ohio CHL walking her dog is surprised by two men who come out of the woods with a raised bat and say "your coming with us"

Unfortunately she did not shoot them both. But otherwise sounded like she did everything else perfect.

philip964 wrote:Unfortunately she did not shoot them both. But otherwise sounded like she did everything else perfect.

I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Shooting someone should always be the last resort.

jmra wrote:

philip964 wrote:Unfortunately she did not shoot them both. But otherwise sounded like she did everything else perfect.

I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Shooting someone should always be the last resort.

I thought the same thing when I read it.

Another example of why you should "Carry 24-7 or Guess Right"
I have a friend that has a CHL & has been through my training programs through Intermediate Stages. He carries "most of the time" & always "puts it away" When he gets home.
Last week he was away for the week & I mowed his yard for him. As I got to the back of the house, OH NO, Screen pried off so I wen to look & no entry. Checked the whole house & couple of other places attemted but no entry.
Called him & they came in. Sat when I was over there visiting it was on the end table by his chair. Hope the small incident is enough.
Like some others above I too hate that we need to do this. I liked the late 60's when my kids were crawlin in the mud, diggin in the dirt w/ a spoon, box was his Skidder & we did not even lock the house or my shop.
Not today.
Carry 24-7 or guess right.

philip964 wrote:http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/201 ... -them.html

Ohio CHL walking her dog is surprised by two men who come out of the woods with a raised bat and say "your coming with us"

Unfortunately she did not shoot them both. But otherwise sounded like she did everything else perfect.

Apparently the guy with the raised bat was not close enough for her to feel she needed to discharge her weapon. That's a good thing because had she done so and wounded him, she would have many more issues to deal with than her Facebook posts.

It is too bad though that she apparently was unable to describe the BGs well enough for the police to find them. I also wonder what role the dog played in this i.e. if it was on a leash (as it should have been) did she retain control with one hand? Pull the gun with the other? Let go of the dog in which case what did the dog do?

I suppose some of this might be on her Facebook page huh.

While I agree that de-escalation is always a better option than shooting, I also think it's a shame they got away to do it again.

Her actions deterred the bad guys from attacking, so by definition she did very well.

However, there are always learning opportunities in situations like this, so I'll suggest a couple things that could be improved not to criticize the woman but to provide food for thought for others.

Asking "Well, what do you want?" to two advancing thugs who have already answered that question is not a productive use of the little time available. It also can convey weakness and spur on an attack.

"I have this and am not afraid to use it" is also a weak statement that some thugs may interpret as she is afraid to use it.

The situation described is beyond the point where questions and statements are useful. This is the time for positive commands while the gun is pointed at center mass of the guy with the bat:

A shouted, "Drop the weapon now! Get on the ground!" does several things:

It removes doubt about whether or not the defender will use the weapon.

It tells the potential attackers exactly what they need to do unless they're willing to get shot.

It notifies anyone in earshot that something bad is happening. This makes them more likely to look and become witnesses and call 911 to get police response started.

These are good things to think about beforehand because they're hard to think up under the pressure of a real impending attack.

jmra wrote:

philip964 wrote:Unfortunately she did not shoot them both. But otherwise sounded like she did everything else perfect.

I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Shooting someone should always be the last resort.

I agree with jmra.

"Could have shot them" is a valid statement.

"Should have shot them" is not because in fact she didn't, the situation turned out well, and the intended victim does not have to deal with the emotional, legal, financial and social aftermath of a shooting. By definition that's a good decision, and in fact the best one possible under the circumstances.

Like most LEO's, I've been in multiple "could have" situations where I didn't and some said I should have. I never regretted those decisions, and I'm still here to talk about them.

Here's the takeaway: "Could have" doesn't always mean "Should have".

Excaliber wrote:
Asking "Well, what do you want?" to two advancing thugs who have already answered that question is not a productive use of the little time available. It also can convey weakness and spur on an attack.

I disagree. She distracted them with conversation while she drew her weapon and released the safety. She handled the situation perfectly.

gljjt wrote:

Excaliber wrote:
Asking "Well, what do you want?" to two advancing thugs who have already answered that question is not a productive use of the little time available. It also can convey weakness and spur on an attack.

I disagree. She distracted them with conversation while she drew her weapon and released the safety. She handled the situation perfectly.

As I pointed out, the lady's tactics worked for her and that made them good in that situation.

In my experience a shouted direct command with a simultaneous draw creates a startling "Oh crap!" effect which is sometimes even verbalized by the bad guys. This approach works really well to stop the attacker's mental momentum and get things moving in the right direction.

You may have experience with other tactics that you have confidence in because they have worked well for you in the past.

When faced like a situation like this, it's your life on the line so of course you should do what you think best.

The outcome will always reveal whether that was a good decision or not.

I'm glad things turned out well for her. I have no use for bad guys. I agree with it's too bad both bad guys didn't get to wake up the following morning looking at roots instead of grass. That's the preferred outcome for all bad guys in any confrontation of that sort or greater.

I hate to say it but somethings just sound off about the story. I hope it's not proved fake.

Often it's very easy to tell those who have actually faced and life a death situation from those who haven't just by their comments on these topics. I have been faced with the decision and I'm thankful everyday I haven't had to pull the trigger.
I've met a lot of people over the years who have been in the same boat. Of those who had to pull the trigger, to a man they all wished they hadn't had to. The loss of life bears heavy on them regardless of the persons character.

EEllis wrote:I hate to say it but somethings just sound off about the story. I hope it's not proved fake.

I thought about that. No witnesses, poor description of the BGs, bringing a bat to a kidnapping instead of a gun or knife,..
Who knows.

jmra wrote:Often it's very easy to tell those who have actually faced and life a death situation from those who haven't just by their comments on these topics. I have been faced with the decision and I'm thankful everyday I haven't had to pull the trigger.
I've met a lot of people over the years who have been in the same boat. Of those who had to pull the trigger, to a man they all wished they hadn't had to. The loss of life bears heavy on them regardless of the persons character.

As the title to Ayoob's book implies: In the Gravest Extreme.