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Charles speaks often about how "intellectually dishonest" prosecutors will twist the law.

IMHO the "shoulder or belt" holster provision in SB17 needs to be struck and replaced with just "holster." I can see it now, Art and his comrades instructing the Austin police department that unless a holster is a true shoulder holster or it is connecting directly to someone's belt, it is ILLEGAL.

This would eliminate carrying the very popular paddle style holsters from being legal for OC. Is this the intention of the bill?

steveincowtown wrote:Charles speaks often about how "intellectually dishonest" prosecutors will twist the law.

IMHO the "shoulder or belt" holster provision in SB17 needs to be struck and replaced with just "holster." I can see it now, Art and his comrades instructing the Austin police department that unless a holster is a true shoulder holster or it is connecting directly to someone's belt, it is ILLEGAL.

This would eliminate carrying the very popular paddle style holsters from being legal for OC. Is this the intention of the bill?

I'm not much of a holster guy, but I thought a paddle holster was attached to a belt....making it a belt holster. What am I missing here?

That was my understanding also.

Are there even legal definitions to the terms "shoulder holster", "belt holster", and "attached"?....

It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

TexasCajun wrote:It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

I want to file a formal complaint with the TexasCHLForum admin.....references to Bill Clinton and use of the dancing banana smilie should NEVER be used in the same post....

Jason K wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

I want to file a formal complaint with the TexasCHLForum admin.....references to Bill Clinton and use of the dancing banana smilie should NEVER be used in the same post....

Well we don't have a dancing cigar readily available...

TexasCajun wrote:

Jason K wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

I want to file a formal complaint with the TexasCHLForum admin.....references to Bill Clinton and use of the dancing banana smilie should NEVER be used in the same post....

Well we don't have a dancing cigar readily available...

What about a belt holster attached to my steering column? Legal or not legal?
It's in a belt holster...

I do have concern that specifying "belt or shoulder" holster will eliminate some other carrying methods like the I use from Raven Concealment Systems Van Guard (which is the best, least bothersome IWB arrangement I've ever found). As a daily personal choice I don't think I will choose OC, but it would be good to be able to take off my outer shirt or jacket sometimes and not worry about illegally "intentionally" displaying my pistol.

joe817 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:Charles speaks often about how "intellectually dishonest" prosecutors will twist the law.

IMHO the "shoulder or belt" holster provision in SB17 needs to be struck and replaced with just "holster." I can see it now, Art and his comrades instructing the Austin police department that unless a holster is a true shoulder holster or it is connecting directly to someone's belt, it is ILLEGAL.

This would eliminate carrying the very popular paddle style holsters from being legal for OC. Is this the intention of the bill?

I'm not much of a holster guy, but I thought a paddle holster was attached to a belt....making it a belt holster. What am I missing here?

I don't think so. In my mind, if I wanted to operate outside the spirit/intent of the law I would say that a paddle holster isn't a belt holster because you don't have to have a belt on to use it. In fact I would go on to say that crossbreed style and clip on holsters are not belt holster either. Even though they work better with a belt, they do not have to have a belt to work.

Also, what happens the first time someone wears their gun in a shoulder holster, but ties the holster around their thigh?

Just seems like it would be prudent to fix any grey areas this session and not 2 years from now.

steveincowtown wrote:

joe817 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:Charles speaks often about how "intellectually dishonest" prosecutors will twist the law.

IMHO the "shoulder or belt" holster provision in SB17 needs to be struck and replaced with just "holster." I can see it now, Art and his comrades instructing the Austin police department that unless a holster is a true shoulder holster or it is connecting directly to someone's belt, it is ILLEGAL.

This would eliminate carrying the very popular paddle style holsters from being legal for OC. Is this the intention of the bill?

I'm not much of a holster guy, but I thought a paddle holster was attached to a belt....making it a belt holster. What am I missing here?

I don't think so. In my mind, if I wanted to operate outside the spirit/intent of the law I would say that a paddle holster isn't a belt holster because you don't have to have a belt on to use it. In fact I would go on to say that crossbreed style and clip on holsters are not belt holster either. Even though they work better with a belt, they do not have to have a belt to work.

Also, what happens the first time someone wears their gun in a shoulder holster, but ties the holster around their thigh?

Just seems like it would be prudent to fix any grey areas this session and not 2 years from now.

No "belt holster" has to have a belt. I can tie one around my waist with a shoestring.

steveincowtown wrote:I don't think so. In my mind, if I wanted to operate outside the spirit/intent of the law I would say that a paddle holster isn't a belt holster because you don't have to have a belt on to use it. In fact I would go on to say that crossbreed style and clip on holsters are not belt holster either. Even though they work better with a belt, they do not have to have a belt to work. Also, what happens the first time someone wears their gun in a shoulder holster, but ties the holster around their thigh? Just seems like it would be prudent to fix any grey areas this session and not 2 years from now.

Here's a good example of a paddle holster:

http://www.safariland.com/paddle/model- ... 23341.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It goes over the belt to secure it as OC. A belt holster. OTOH, a crossbreed style holster is for concealed carry and does not enter the discussion, since this thread and this discussion is talking about open carry holsters.

joe817 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:I don't think so. In my mind, if I wanted to operate outside the spirit/intent of the law I would say that a paddle holster isn't a belt holster because you don't have to have a belt on to use it. In fact I would go on to say that crossbreed style and clip on holsters are not belt holster either. Even though they work better with a belt, they do not have to have a belt to work. Also, what happens the first time someone wears their gun in a shoulder holster, but ties the holster around their thigh? Just seems like it would be prudent to fix any grey areas this session and not 2 years from now.

Here's a good example of a paddle holster:

http://www.safariland.com/paddle/model- ... 23341.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It goes over the belt to secure it as OC. A belt holster. OTOH, a crossbreed style holster is for concealed carry and does not enter the discussion, since this thread and this discussion is talking about open carry holsters.

I wear a paddle holster without a belt all the time. I even wear it with board shorts. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be considered a belt holster, but without a legal definition it's hard to say.

TVGuy wrote:............ but without a legal definition it's hard to say.

Which is the point of this thread. When looking at this law we can't simply say "well this is what I think." Look at the law from 2 distinct extremist point of views. Each group is going to try to push the law as far as they can.

The people against OC are going to use every little nuance of the law to cause problems.

The people who want to be "in your face" about it are going to do the same.

Unless we want to see people getting arrested in Austin for wearing a paddle holster with board shots, and folks in Arlington wearing a shoulder holster as a drop leg rig this tiny portion of the bill needs to be cleaned up.