TexasCHLforum.com

I'm new to this CHL business, so the thread about someone's CHL being confiscated in Levelland based on an invalid "guns prohibited" sign got me thinking.

It's my understanding that basically, a sign that does not meet the exact requirements as spelled out in Texas 30.06 is not legally binding in regards to prohibiting entering with a handgun.

And, I've seen in a number of other threads on this site regarding improper "guns prohibited" signage, that it seems to me that most people claim that they basically ignore those signs because those signs do not meet the simple and clearly stated requirements of Texas law.

But now in this Levelland thread, based on some of the comments, I seem to be getting the impression that a lot of people (maybe different people?) definitely would NOT carry on premises that had simply a "gun busters" sign ("did he walk past the sign?", "this will be a good test case", "this will cost him a lot of money")

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, and not trying to call anybody out. I'm just genuinely confused. Do most people here abide by any sign, or do most people abide only by the legal 30.06 signage?

Obviously, if you wanted to be fully prepared to defend yourself from an armed attack, you would ignore this invalid sign. But heck, if that were your only thought, you would ignore ALL signs! And I certainly would not advise anyone to do that, and I don't think anybody else here would either. So there has to be a breakpoint, somewhere, where you would (reluctantly) disarm yourself and walk in and conduct your business.

So, in all honesty: in regards to adhering to the letter and/or spirit of the law, would it be smarter for a CHL holder to abide by ALL "guns prohibited" signs, or only abide by legally valid (30.06) "guns prohibited" signs?

The polls are open.

The law is quite specific. If businesses choose not to follow the law, then who are we to question them? It's entirely possible that some businesses have no guns signs to placate the sheep, knowing full well that CHL holders will walk past the sign without hesitation. If a business really wants to keep CHL holders out, they will post a legal sign.

A gun buster sign means nothing. If a sign is close to right for 30.06 but has something a little wrong (3/4" letters as opposed to 1" letters) I'll abide by the owners wishes and go elsewhere.

jmra wrote:A gun buster sign means nothing. If a sign is close to right for 30.06 but has something a little wrong (3/4" letters as opposed to 1" letters) I'll abide by the owners wishes and go elsewhere.

This.

Thatguyoverthere, I and many others don't merely claim that we will walk past a sign that does not meet the standards set forth in 30.06. We have and will do so again everyday. We don't chose to do so because we have money to burn either. The reason for folks that are arrested and charged with carrying past a non-compliant sign is the ignorance of the arresting officer, department, and DA that followed through with the charges. If I were somehow discovered to be carrying in a situation like that and the police were called there are so many variables that could cause problems it is mind boggling and defies logic. But, that's what you get when you have folks in power that want to takes the rights of other away.

It is always your choice to respect any no-gun sign or not. Some look at it as respecting the business owners wishes. That business owner may not be aware of the law regarding the required signage or they may not even remember there is a gunbuster sign in their window. Or they may know and only be putting up a sign that will appease the most people. Most anti-gun people aren't aware of 30.06 and think a gunbuster sign is keeping guns out of a place and most CHLs know that it is meaningless to them.

I have routinely carried passed invalid signs.... even a 51% sign that was invalid... one of the things i have done is copied the applicable sections of the Penal Code so if stopped can show the LEO what the appropriate statute is... one place that has a invalid sign is my physical therapy... i dont carry in there because some of the exercises are hard to do with the weight of a pistol on my side

It is always your choice to respect any no-gun sign or not. Some look at it as respecting the business owners wishes. That business owner may not be aware of the law regarding the required signage or they may not even remember there is a gunbuster sign in their window. Or they may know and only be putting up a sign that will appease the most people. Most anti-gun people aren't aware of 30.06 and think a gunbuster sign is keeping guns out of a place and most CHLs know that it is meaningless to them.

This is pretty much my feeling. I want to respect the shopkeepers wishes even if the poor fellow isn't law-literate enough to express himself properly.

However, the State tells me it's my choice to walk past non-binding signs. If I'm surprised by a meaningless gunbuster sign I didn't know was there, I don't disarm, I, ahem, carry on.

That's because touching my gun is a risk, in my foggy opinion. It's very safe as long as it's sitting right where it is. To disarm, I have to mess with it. I have zero personal tolerance for unsafe handling, but gun accidents always start with someone touching a gun. Also, I'll have to trust the security of my car while I abandon my gun. Worse, assuming I'm going to re-arm, I have to risk discharging the gun with negligent holstering technique. Worse yet, I'll be reholstering on the sly, in my car, without much freedom of movement. No well-practiced tacticool snappy holstering with a smart flip and a fancy wild west three-and-a-half gainer into the kydex.

There are no gunbuster signs in my neck of the woods. If there were I probably wouldn't go to those places, absent sure knowledge the fake no-guns signs were just camouflage to soothe skittish customers. I would still be in complete legal compliance to whistle right past them, gun tucked away out of sight, and I might continue to do so. It would depend on the place, I suppose.

"These public streets gun-free by order of the Wuthering Heights Glee Club," that would be disturbing. I'd contact them to tell them they were usurping the rule of law. Demonstrations or public display would be a terrible thing, but I would secretly conceal-carry right past them and spend a little time and postage to try to stamp out that stupidity.

Places where I can't lawfully carry, I don't. I know me. It would be easy to reason there aren't federal marshals in my little post office, and if I'm just going to dash in and check my PO box nobody will ever know. Not going to do that. I respect the power of slippery slopes.

Every day when I check the mail, or go to my bank where the only 30.06 in town soils the windows, I disarm and very carefully rearm when I leave.

And I've gotten a new bank account, just need to get my direct deposit moved over. At the new bank I had a nice, relaxed, conversation with the president about their gun policies and their wishes. No problem. Nice guy, and he told me about the time his dad shot a burglar, a bad situation with a happy ending (and only a minor wound to the bad guy, nothing debilitating).

I don't split hairs. So if I see a proper 30.06 sign on a building where it is legally allowed, I either disarm or don't go in. I don't measure the letters to wiggle past a technicality. Close enough is good enough for me. I will also walk past proper but illegal signs (signs that are the right size and correct wording but posted on govt buildings) while armed. As with anything on the internet, usual disclaimers apply.

C-dub wrote:That business owner may not be aware of the law regarding the required signage or they may not even remember there is a gunbuster sign in their window. Or they may know and only be putting up a sign that will appease the most people. Most anti-gun people aren't aware of 30.06 and think a gunbuster sign is keeping guns out of a place and most CHLs know that it is meaningless to them.

I not all that long ago talked to a guy who had a gun buster sign on his shop and was then surprised to get into a very pro gun conversation with him only to learn that he'd recently moved to that location and kept forgetting to take down the sign that was there when he moved in. Everyday was busy for him and remembering to stand up front and spend time scraping wasn't high on his must do today list.

And I know another guy who had a gun buster sign on his door because he was told by the landlord that he wasn't allowed to change or modify signage, and he thought that included an existing gun buster sign that had apparently been there for years with the prior tenant.

The above are two examples of why at times I think that we might be missing opportunities when we do the "don't ask, don't tell" thing by not talking to the owners.

Carried past an invalid 30.06 sign yesterday at the Houston Zoo. Sign is about 3' tall, green with white letters. Wife asked me if I was going to carry it anyway and of course I said yes.

If it is a 30.06 sign on a state, county or city building or property, I carry anyway.

If it is close to a compliant 30.06 sign on a privately owned building, I will respect their wishes and take my business elsewhere.

If its just a gunbuster or no weapons allowed sign, then I carry anyway.

I have a friend that has a small retail store that had a gunbusters sign. Knowing that he has a CHL, and that he is pro 2A, I asked him about it. He said that his insurance had required him to post a no gun sign. They did not specify that it had to be compliant so he put up a gunbuster sign knowing that it was non compliant. He has since changed insurance companies and the sign has since come down.

Distinguished Rick wrote:Carried past an invalid 30.06 sign yesterday at the Houston Zoo. Sign is about 3' tall, green with white letters. Wife asked me if I was going to carry it anyway and of course I said yes.

Taking the family there today, armed of course.

I'm sorry, but this thread/poll has possible MDA troll written all over it. Not accusing anyone of anything, but a new user posing this question/poll raises my suspicions a bit. This is especially the case now with what is going on in the Lege.

I hope it's not the case - I hope they are here for legitimate help.

If the sign does not follow the law it might as well be a blank sign.

TVGuy wrote:I'm sorry, but this thread/poll has possible MDA troll written all over it. Not accusing anyone of anything, but a new user posing this question/poll raises my suspicions a bit. This is especially the case now with what is going on in the Lege.

I hope it's not the case - I hope they are here for legitimate help.

If the sign does not follow the law it might as well be a blank sign.

The question is not about a valid or invalid attempt at a 30.06 sign, it'a about a generic gunbuster or 'no guns' sign.