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This bill would be good for renters of property whereby they get permission from the owner or person in control (i.e, property manager) of the property to carry a handgun anywhere on the property. Currently, it is not 'legal' for a tenant to openly carry in the common areas, e.g., patio, walkways, pool, parking lot, garage entrances, laundry rooms, boat dock, etc. even with owners' permission.

The only vague part I see is the omission of what form the permission would take; written; verbal? It just says, "..owner consents..".

The bill went through committee and testimony with no problems, and I see it was recommended for the 'Local and Consent" calendar.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLook ... ill=HB1509

Consent is consent, I don't think it needs to be written consent.

One committee member did ask a witness about the presumption, and he said "verbal".

Correction to the above, it wasn't a witness - it was Rep. Sheets, the author, who answered member Johnson's question, and Sheets assumed it would be a verbal consent.

K5GU wrote:One committee member did ask a witness (think it was Terry Holcomb) about the presumption, and he said "verbal", so I guess the owner/manager would need an invitation to testify on behalf of the accused, eh?

The prosecutor would have to prove that the owner did not give consent, not the other way around.

In order to arrest someone, a police officer would need probable cause that the owner or person in control did not give consent, even. Although this would be as simple as asking the owner.

mr1337 wrote:

K5GU wrote:One committee member did ask a witness (think it was Terry Holcomb) about the presumption, and he said "verbal", so I guess the owner/manager would need an invitation to testify on behalf of the accused, eh?

The prosecutor would have to prove that the owner did not give consent, not the other way around.

In order to arrest someone, a police officer would need probable cause that the owner or person in control did not give consent, even. Although this would be as simple as asking the owner.

I understand that, thanks. So the owner would testify (give evidence) to the officer and not a prosecutor, right?
So, under this scenario, I would either need to stay in contact with the owner, or get a written statement in case the owner was not available, and I didn't want to be arrested. Right?

One thing I've learned through many years of negotiating service contracts - if it's not in writing it didn't happen.
I would want written authorization.

the best advice for anything.

jmra wrote:One thing I've learned through many years of negotiating service contracts - if it's not in writing it didn't happen.
I would want written authorization.

Yup, folks come and folks go, relationships change... Get it in writing on letterhead.

Pardon my potential ignorance... but isn't this already the law?

My parents own 275 acres in Comanche, and I OC a pistol at all times out there. I am not the owner, they are, and neither of my parents have given me specific permission to carry out there... but both have seen me do it and never said that I cannot.

If this is not already the law, how can a gun store owner give his employees permission to OC in the store... especially if the store is a lease in a strip mall that he does not own, but is merely a renter?

I am pretty sure this, or something very similar to it, is already the law. Or is this aimed at the specific example of a common area of an apartment complex?

AJSully421 wrote:Pardon my potential ignorance... but isn't this already the law?

My parents own 275 acres in Comanche, and I OC a pistol at all times out there. I am not the owner, they are, and neither of my parents have given me specific permission to carry out there... but both have seen me do it and never said that I cannot.

If this is not already the law, how can a gun store owner give his employees permission to OC in the store... especially if the store is a lease in a strip mall that he does not own, but is merely a renter?

I am pretty sure this, or something very similar to it, is already the law. Or is this aimed at the specific example of a common area of an apartment complex?

I think in the scenario "..parents own 275 acres..", you could be considered "person in control";
In the scenario "..employees permission..in the store.." the employee could be considered "person in control".

You might however have a problem defending that theory if someone in addition to you were carrying, like a friend. The "person in control" is probably what would need to be defined and proven in court.

If you're a renter in an apartment or town home type property that has common areas, OC would be an offense under current law, and thus the reason for the proposed bill HB 1509. ..This is not legal advice...