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The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:47 pm
by VMI77
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/09/l ... ain-part-1
The change, which the FBI revealed quietly in a February 2015 Privacy Impact Assessment (PIA), means that if you ever have your fingerprints taken for licensing or for a background check, they will most likely end up living indefinitely in the FBI’s NGI database. They’ll be searched thousands of times a day by law enforcement agencies across the country—even if your prints didn’t match any criminal records when they were first submitted to the system.
This is the first time the FBI has allowed routine criminal searches of its civil fingerprint data. Although employers and certifying agencies have submitted prints to the FBI for decades, the FBI says it rarely retained these non-criminal prints. And even when it did retain prints in the past, they “were not readily accessible or searchable.” Now, not only will these prints—and the biographical data included with them—be available to any law enforcement agent who wants to look for them, they will be searched as a matter of course along with all prints collected for a clearly criminal purpose (like upon arrest or at time of booking).
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:03 pm
by Beiruty
All legal immigrants going through Naturalization have their fingerprints on records even when they committed no crime at all.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:08 pm
by VMI77
Beiruty wrote:All legal immigrants going through Naturalization have their fingerprints on records even when they committed no crime at all.
Searchable like this? If so, just as wrong. I expected mine to be on file even without a background check since I was in the military. However, I didn't expect them to be part of every criminal database search, and they weren't, until this year.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:50 pm
by VMI77
[Quoted post deleted because of Rule violation.]
Wasn't happening when I had my kids.
The second part isn't the issue to me because I'm not expecting gun confiscations or mass roundups. I refer you to what happened to the attorney mentioned in the article. The FBI got a weak match on his prints and decided he was a terrorist even though they were repeatedly told by the Spanish government they had the wrong guy and knew they had a weak match. Trolling through an omni print database will result in more false positives and more innocent people having their lives wrecked....and the facial recognition matches they want to add to the print database will be an even worse source of false positives.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:29 pm
by bmwrdr
Beiruty wrote:All legal immigrants going through Naturalization have their fingerprints on records even when they committed no crime at all.
All illegal imigrants have their finger prints taken in both countries. I migrated from Germany in the late 90's and had to show up with 10 years of crime free history, a status of my health, and records of education, fluent English was required as well.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:39 pm
by Rex B
bmwrdr wrote:I migrated from Germany in the late 90's and had to show up with 10 years of crime free history, a status of my health, and records of education, fluent English was required as well.
Well, I bet you feel pretty silly now, knowing all that is no longer required.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:33 pm
by puma guy
bmwrdr wrote:Beiruty wrote:All legal immigrants going through Naturalization have their fingerprints on records even when they committed no crime at all.
All illegal imigrants have their finger prints taken in both countries. I migrated from Germany in the late 90's and had to show up with 10 years of crime free history, a status of my health, and records of education, fluent English was required as well.
I you had waited a few years you could just fly to Mexico, learn "Que Paso?", and swim or walk into the US.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:55 pm
by Dr.Wayne
who cares?
just dont do anything stupid to get arrested and you wont have a problem.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:59 pm
by ScottDLS
I kind of of assumed they'd keep them. The Navy got my first set of prints when I was 17 and at least 4 more sets by the time I got out at 25. Counting TX CHL, NFA registrations, and other state permits I must have submitted 20 or 30 sets in the last twenty years. Feds have gotten at least 5 more for security clearances and government contract work. I think they're saying now the Chinese have them from when they hacked OPM. Argentina and Brazil took my thumb prints for visas, plus head shots like Immigration does in the US. I got a DHS Global Entry card...prints for that. Texas takes two index fingers for DL. Never got any taken incident to arrest, but if I were gonna be a criminal I better burn my prints off with acid, 'cause the Gov has like 100 sets already!
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:04 pm
by JALLEN
I don't think it is as much they consider all of us 'suspects' as it is that the means exist to quickly find identities of those involved in events which come to their attention.
I can't imagine how many of those fingerprint cards I've completed for military clearances, various licenses etc. If you believe the tv shows, all those were categorized, classified and give away to be searched manually as the occasion demanded.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:26 pm
by Taypo
ScottDLS wrote:I kind of of assumed they'd keep them. The Navy got my first set of prints when I was 17 and at least 4 more sets by the time I got out at 25. Counting TX CHL, NFA registrations, and other state permits I must have submitted 20 or 30 sets in the last twenty years. Feds have gotten at least 5 more for security clearances and government contract work. I think they're saying now the Chinese have them from when they hacked OPM. Argentina and Brazil took my thumb prints for visas, plus head shots like Immigration does in the US. I got a DHS Global Entry card...prints for that. Texas takes two index fingers for DL. Never got any taken incident to arrest, but if I were gonna be a criminal I better burn my prints off with acid, 'cause the Gov has like 100 sets already!
I've been under the impression this was already the case, too. I know they kept em on file while I was on Active Duty, because they were doing random fingerprinting on me and taking comparisons for 5 years.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:36 pm
by Beiruty
Not to panic, all those Bio-metrics are to positively ID you.Thus to just avoid searching for John Smith or Juan Gonzales and have 1240 hits on a single search.
BTW, Retina Scan would be next and/or hand blood vessels bio-metrics. Retina Scan is easier/cheaper/portable and has been tested in Iraq.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:10 pm
by bmwrdr
puma guy wrote:bmwrdr wrote:Beiruty wrote:All legal immigrants going through Naturalization have their fingerprints on records even when they committed no crime at all.
All illegal imigrants have their finger prints taken in both countries. I migrated from Germany in the late 90's and had to show up with 10 years of crime free history, a status of my health, and records of education, fluent English was required as well.
I you had waited a few years you could just fly to Mexico, learn "Que Paso?", and swim or walk into the US.
Good call but it wasn't necessary to go that route. I had education, no criminal records, military experience and I paid my bills.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:13 pm
by bmwrdr
Rex B wrote:bmwrdr wrote:I migrated from Germany in the late 90's and had to show up with 10 years of crime free history, a status of my health, and records of education, fluent English was required as well.
Well, I bet you feel pretty silly now, knowing all that is no longer required.
Actually I don't feel silly now. I have dual citizenship, no criminal records, paid my fees and bills and would not even think about doing it the other way around.
Re: The FBI considers all of us suspects now
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:21 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Dr.Wayne wrote:who cares?
just dont do anything stupid to get arrested and you wont have a problem.
And if they get a false positive on your prints? The goobermint won't be paying for your legal fees and other costs while you're getting rousted.
I care. You should too. The fact that not enough people care anymore is exactly why the federal government thinks it can get away with this kind of crapulence.