TexasCHLforum.com

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it wrong to inform someone you are carring a gun?

For example, if someone asks if you are carrying a gun, I was always told to tell them "I am unable to answer that question blah blah Texas Penal code." Also, where is the info about mandatory concealment of firearms by CHLers.

Can someone point out specifics?...
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

Perhaps it's in a different location?

Thanks in advance.

IMHO, it is not illegal to tell someone. I think it is a bad idea, unless that person can lay hands on you without asking your permission at the moment (for example, your spouse).

Depending upon circumstances and subjective factors, saying that you are armed could be considered a threat.

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:...
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

For anyone who thinks it is illegal to reveal your status verbally, what do you think of caps that say "CHL instructor," IDPA, or USPCA?

- Jim

MacKnife wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it wrong to inform someone you are carring a gun?

For example, if someone asks if you are carrying a gun, I was always told to tell them "I am unable to answer that question blah blah Texas Penal code." Also, where is the info about mandatory concealment of firearms by CHLers.

Can someone point out specifics?...
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

Perhaps it's in a different location?

Thanks in advance.

I usually ask 'em back if they're wearing underwear. Some of 'em get offended, but I don't see as how my question is any more personal than theirs...

seamusTX wrote: Depending upon circumstances and subjective factors, saying that you are armed could be considered a threat.

While technically true that this could be the case in SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, many people on this site do not seem to realize that those circumstances are VERY, VERY narrow.

Simply informing someone you are armed, whether in casual conversation or in response to a query IS NOT A THREAT AND IS NOT A CRIME.

You are NOT "failing to conceal" if you TELL someone you happen to be carrying.

Furthermore, if you are carrying under authority of a CHL and you get stopped by LE, YOU ARE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO TELL THEM YOU ARE CARRYING.

MacKnife wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it wrong to inform someone you are carring a gun?

You are wrong. See above.

MacKnife wrote: For example, if someone asks if you are carrying a gun, I was always told to tell them "I am unable to answer that question blah blah Texas Penal code."

Whoever told you that was simply spreading a "TX CHL legend". And a pretty lame one at that.

Now as others have pointed out, you may or may not WANT TO tell someone (who asks) that you are carrying. That is a completely different matter. But FWIW, if I was asked and did not want to disclose, I would simply tell the person that it was none of their business and be done with it.

I certainly wouldn't go spouting nonsense about "the Texas Penal Code prevents me from answering that question, yadda, yadda, yadda.....".

To see how idiotic this is, suppose you did not have a CHL and WERE NOT carrying. And suppose someone asked you if you had a CHL and if you were carrying. Do you think it would be against the law for you to say, "No, I do not have a CHL and I am not carrying a concealed handgun at this time."?

So if it's legal to answer "No", but it's supposedly illegal to answer "Yes", then by answering that you cannot legally answer you are really saying "Yes", right?

Like I said, "Texas CHL legend".

Finally, if you want to get first hand experience with the difference between TELLING someone you are carrying and SHOWING them you are carrying, I suggest the following experiment.

1) Find a radar trap. Then, while carrying, run through it at 15 mph over the limit. When you get pulled over, hand the officer your DL and CHL and inform him or her that you are carrying. Observe the officer's reaction.

2) Find another radar trap. Again, while carrying, run through it at 15 mph over the limit. This time, when you get pulled over, hand the officer your DL and CHL, and then open your concealement garment and SHOW THE COP THE GUN. Observe the officer's reaction.

This experiment is best performed on a lonely stretch of highway on a Friday night 15 minutes after the local bars have closed.

Good luck.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

seamusTX wrote: Depending upon circumstances and subjective factors, saying that you are armed could be considered a threat.

While technically true that this could be the case in SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, many people on this site do not seem to realize that those circumstances are VERY, VERY narrow.

Let's look at two scenarios:
1. You are leaving a restaurant with a friend when some mangy-looking characters start to look at you with interest. Your friend says, "Those guys make me nervous." You say, "I have a gun."
2. You walk up to the counter at a convenience store, plunk down your beef jerky and Dr. Pepper, and say, "I have a gun."

I think the difference between these two scenanios is entirely subjective, but it's obvious to everyone.

P.S.: I don't think I've said the words "I have a gun" since I quit playing cops and robbers.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote: Let's look at two scenarios:
1. You are leaving a restaurant with a friend when some mangy-looking characters start to look at you with interest. Your friend says, "Those guys make me nervous." You say, "I have a gun."
2. You walk up to the counter at a convenience store, plunk down your beef jerky and Dr. Pepper, and say, "I have a gun."

I think the difference between these two scenanios is entirely subjective, but it's obvious to everyone.

- Jim

Precisely.

The thing that gets me is that every so often I see a post from someone who is imagining something like this:

Two friends leaving a convenience store. One says to the other, "Sometimes I think about getting me one of those CHL's." The friend replies, "Really? I've had one for a few years now. In fact, I'm carrying right now."

And just at that moment, an off duty cop happens to be walking by. He overhears the exchange and immediately tackles the guy who "outed" himself. As he is wrestling the guy to the ground he is screaming, "Stop resisting! Stop resisting! Put your hands behind your back! Do it NOW!"

The terrified CHL guy complies as best as he can. The cop gets him cuffed, flashes his badge, and yells for the convenience store clerk to call 911.

When uniformed cops arrive, they put the CHL guy in the back seat of a cruiser while telling him, "You're under arrest. You have the right to remain silent. Blah, blah, blah. Do you know why I arrested you?"

"Uh, no.", says the CHL guy.

"You're being arrested for the crime of failing to conceal a handgun carried under the authority of a TX CHL.", says the cop.

"But.... but..... I never allowed my gun to be seen by anyone."

"Doesn't matter. When you told your friend you were carrying, it's the same as if you flashed it."

Now sure, the above would never happen. But MacKnife's post was not the first I have seen that made me think that the author actually believed that something like that COULD actually happen.

seamusTX wrote: Let's look at two scenarios:
1. You are leaving a restaurant with a friend when some mangy-looking characters start to look at you with interest. Your friend says, "Those guys make me nervous." You say, "I have a gun."
2. You walk up to the counter at a convenience store, plunk down your beef jerky and Dr. Pepper, and say, "I have a gun."

I think the difference between these two scenanios is entirely subjective, but it's obvious to everyone.

- Jim

Here's another one, this one a true story.

A coiuple of years ago, my wife helped out with a charity benefit. She was in charge of the food/beer concession. At the end of the night, she and her crew counted up the money and put it all in a box. All told, it was around a thousand dollars.

One of the guys, an off duty cop also working the event, asked if we wanted him to follow us home, just in case some BG got an idea to try to rob the receipts. My wife casually told him, "Thanks, but you don't need to. Frankie's carrying a gun."

It kinda startled me a little when she said that, but in the final analysis, no harm, no crime, no foul, no baloney.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:A coiuple of years ago, my wife helped out with a charity benefit. She was in charge of the food/beer concession. At the end of the night, she and her crew counted up the money and put it all in a box. All told, it was around a thousand dollars.

One of the guys, an off duty cop also working the event, asked if we wanted him to follow us home, just in case some BG got an idea to try to rob the receipts. My wife casually told him, "Thanks, but you don't need to. Frankie's carrying a gun."

That's a good story. One aspect is that the cop knew you, or knew your wife well enough to trust her word.

For most cops, the words "have/has a gun" are alarming. I don't blame them a bit, as they can become targets of criminals at any time.

Then there are the citizens who go ape over any sight or mention of a weapon. Years ago, all they could do was shriek. Now they can call 911 on their cell phones. "Man with a gun" calls get attention in some jurisdictions.

- Jim

Usually, I answer any questions like "Are you carrying?" or "Do you have a gun?" with a joke or some such. I've got a butane lighter in the facsimile of a tiny revolver, and I'll sometimes say "Yes," pull that out, and "light 'em up." That sort of clowning usually diverts the question nicely.

The few co-workers who know I carry are careful not to ask any direct questions, although they will join in with the clowning. Turning the whole thing into a joke makes it forgettable for most folks, and they never realize I didn't give them a straight answer.

In the example given, of a casual hug and an inappropriate response ("OMG! Is that a gun?" ), the wrong response would be to answer, "In accordance with Texas law, I am not allowed to answer that question."

The right way would be deflection, based on your knowledge or assessment of the questioner. You could reassure them: "Why on earth would you think I have a gun?"

Or you could embarrass them: "That's a health-care device. It's very personal, and I'd rather not talk about it."

Or you could just lie: "Oh, that's my PDA."

But in some circumstances it's okay to acknowledge that you're carrying. Here's my example: I was riding with a co-worker on a 250 mile business trip. He made the mistake of trusting Mapquest directions, so we were taking a detour through a very bad neighborhood, and were getting the hairy eyeball from every corner. He didn't ask if I had a gun; instead, he asked, "How much ammo are you carrying?"

I suppose I'd already been made. But then, we were both authorized to carry under LEOSA, so it wasn't a secret.

Anyhoo, I replied, "On me, you mean? I have 24 rounds of .45, and 14 rounds of 9x18. How about you?" He said, "Six of .357, and two speedloaders, and a dozen loose rounds."

So, we were in pretty good shape.

There have been times when we encountered some questionable characters, when my wife would "casually" place her arm around my waist, just to make sure. But she'd have been more shocked to find nothing but belt, than to find a pistol. And knowing why she was feeling, I'd have re-directed her to the pocket containing the BUG.

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:In the example given, of a casual hug and an inappropriate response ("OMG! Is that a gun?" ), the wrong response would be to answer, "In accordance with Texas law, I am not allowed to answer that question."

The right way would be deflection, based on your knowledge or assessment of the questioner. You could reassure them: "Why on earth would you think I have a gun?" Kevin

It might be A right way, but it's not necessarily THE right way.


You might just say, "Yes.". If the other person doesn't like it - too bad.

Again, I'm not saying that the above is THE right way, just that it is one of MANY right ways to respond to such a query.

The only thing that's for sure is that it is idiotic to say something like, "I can't answer that because of the Texas Penal Code...yadda, yadda, yadda."

For me, if a citizen asks me if I'm carrying, the answe is "No".

"Are you armed...is that a gun"??!!

"Nope, no gun..."

"Well it's something"!!!

"Don't worry, it's my Gerber fencing tool...can you beleive all the rain we've been having lately"...

If they insist on asking again..."have a nice day" and then walk away. No need to get up in their face. All I want to do is avoid the situation and go about my business...

I'm sure we all have ways of dealing with "the question". But keep in mind that the title of this thread goes to the question of whether or not it is illegal to tell someone you have a CHL and/or are carrying.

The original poster said he "had always been told" to reply by spouting some nonsense about the Texas penal code not allowing him to answer that question.

This may seem to go against the grain, but most if not all of my close friends know I carry and carry all the time. Several times, we have been in a bad nieghborhood or a potentially threatening situation, and one of my bud's asked "are you packing?". One time, a friend's wife said out of the blue "I'm not worried.......'s packing". Another time, we were at a couple's house frying fish. We heard gunshots coming from the front yard. My buddy ran around to the front, and I went around the other way and stayed partially behind the corner of the house to cover him. It turned out to be non-hostile, but his wife told me she felt at ease because she knew I had my pistol with me. Two of my friends are getting CHL's because of me. It may be a CHL ignorant statement, but I see no problem in letting someone know you are a CHL holder and actively carry--as long as it is within the context of the law. I guess that's why I am so many "emergency contact" listings for my friends who have home security systems.

DSARGE wrote:This may seem to go against the grain, but most if not all of my close friends know I carry and carry all the time. Several times, we have been in a bad nieghborhood or a potentially threatening situation, and one of my bud's asked "are you packing?". One time, a friend's wife said out of the blue "I'm not worried.......'s packing". Another time, we were at a couple's house frying fish. We heard gunshots coming from the front yard. My buddy ran around to the front, and I went around the other way and stayed partially behind the corner of the house to cover him. It turned out to be non-hostile, but his wife told me she felt at ease because she knew I had my pistol with me. Two of my friends are getting CHL's because of me. It may be a CHL ignorant statement, but I see no problem in letting someone know you are a CHL holder and actively carry--as long as it is within the context of the law. I guess that's why I am so many "emergency contact" listings for my friends who have home security systems.

That parallels my experience almost exactly.

My close friends all know that I have a CHL and that I carry whenever it is legal to do so. And yes, I've been in the "bad neighborhood" situation a few times with a group of friends who expressed their reassurance because they knew what I had with me.

With me, if I know someone and respect them, I have no problem telling them.

To the rest, I just tell them it is none of their business if the subject ever comes up (which is practically never).