TexasCHLforum.com

Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately a Disorderly Conduct charge under Texas Penal Code 42.01 is a disqualifier, and a differed adjudication in Texas is considered the same as a conviction for purposes of LTC.

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY.
Text of subsection effective on Jan. 1, 2016
(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a handgun if the person:
.........
(8) has not, in the five years preceding the date of application, been convicted
of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense or of an offense
under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense;

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
........
(4) “Convicted” means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in
Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against a
person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of
the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from
community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or
an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided, or sealed
under any state or federal law.

So, you may be eligible for a Florida license, but not sure of their requirements from a misdemeanor standpoint.

casp625 wrote:

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

The supreme Court ruled it was freedom of speech to flip the bird to LEOs (not saying you did it to a LEO) so who did you give the finger to? Obama?

How about you tell us the whole story? I'm curious how it all happened.

casp625 wrote:

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

As Keith stated, it will make you permanently not eligible in Texas.
IANAL, but IMO, just because you "might" be able to get a Florida CHL isn't enough reason to plead guilty to this charge.
If actually all you did is "flip off a cop", if I were you I would fight it. If there are other circumstances then your decision might be different.
Obviously you knew enough to ask if that a conviction will affect the CHL process.
Does your lawyer understand this as well and did he/she explain it to you?
It is your decision to make, but it should be an informed decision.
Good luck to you.

Javier730 wrote:

casp625 wrote:

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

The supreme Court ruled it was freedom of speech to flip the bird to LEOs (not saying you did it to a LEO) so who did you give the finger to? Obama?

How about you tell us the whole story? I'm curious how it all happened.

I'll have to admit that I am curious as well.

I found this on line in 15 seconds . Flipping the bird is protected expression except in very narrow limitations. Unless you are within that narrow definition you should get a new lawyer - one that can use the internet.

by U.S. District Judge David Cercone of Pittsburgh.

“Hackbart, in this instance, was expressing his frustration and anger when he gestured with his middle finger to both the driver behind him and to [the officer],” Cercone wrote. “Both gestures are protected expressions under the First Amendment, unless they fall within a narrowly limited category of unprotected speech such as obscene speech or fighting words.”

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... ee_speech/

WildBill wrote:

casp625 wrote:

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

As Keith stated, it will make you permanently not eligible in Texas.
..[snip]..
Good luck to you.

If convicted/deferred adjudication, he would only be ineligible for 5 years, it wouldn't be permanently disqualifying. OP were you charged under PC 42.01(a)(2), making an offensive gesture?

On a side note, if you are truly getting deferred disposition, then you would be eligible for a CHL as soon as the paperwork stated "dismissed," which I would assume would be 90 days from it being filed. Make sure it is not deferred ADJUDICATION or you will not be eligible for 5 years. And before anyone goes about stating deferred disposition is not in the penal code, I can attest that I received deferred disposition/prosecution for a Class A misdemeanor, the charge was dismissed, and applied & received my CHL less than 2 years after the dismissal. It actually only took DPS 3 weeks from the time application was complete to plastic in hand, and I they didn't ask for my disposition paperwork

Several police departments have paid quite a bit of money for officers arresting folks for flipping the bird. If that's the whole story you really should review your legal strategy based on federal case law
Read the first amendment. Google "flipping bird at cop doesn't warrant arrest"

casp625 wrote:

WildBill wrote:

casp625 wrote:

nirvana wrote:Greetings all. I have been a longtime lurker for years. I need some info I can't find.

In a nutshell I got a disorderly ticket for flipping the bird.
I have a lawyer. If I do the probation thing which is pay a fine and not get another ticket for same offense in the same city as first one after 90 days. It goes away but does it go away in regards to my CHL?

My lawyer says it will be a "deferred disposition and dismissed."


So will "finger waving" i.e. what I consider as protected speech having any bearing on my CHL if I take this plea?

Do I need to find a Florida instructor??

Thanx!

Find a better lawyer. How exactly did your conduct "tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace" merely by flipping the bird?

As Keith stated, it will make you permanently not eligible in Texas.
..[snip]..
Good luck to you.

If convicted/deferred adjudication, he would only be ineligible for 5 years, it wouldn't be permanently disqualifying. OP were you charged under PC 42.01(a)(2), making an offensive gesture?

On a side note, if you are truly getting deferred disposition, then you would be eligible for a CHL as soon as the paperwork stated "dismissed," which I would assume would be 90 days from it being filed. Make sure it is not deferred ADJUDICATION or you will not be eligible for 5 years. And before anyone goes about stating deferred disposition is not in the penal code, I can attest that I received deferred disposition/prosecution for a Class A misdemeanor, the charge was dismissed, and applied & received my CHL less than 2 years after the dismissal. It actually only took DPS 3 weeks from the time application was complete to plastic in hand, and I they didn't ask for my disposition paperwork

Simply dismissing a deferred adjudication will not render the applicant eligible for an LTC. The order must set aside everything including the deferred adjudication itself.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

casp625 wrote: If convicted/deferred adjudication, he would only be ineligible for 5 years, it wouldn't be permanently disqualifying. OP were you charged under PC 42.01(a)(2), making an offensive gesture?

On a side note, if you are truly getting deferred disposition, then you would be eligible for a CHL as soon as the paperwork stated "dismissed," which I would assume would be 90 days from it being filed. Make sure it is not deferred ADJUDICATION or you will not be eligible for 5 years. And before anyone goes about stating deferred disposition is not in the penal code, I can attest that I received deferred disposition/prosecution for a Class A misdemeanor, the charge was dismissed, and applied & received my CHL less than 2 years after the dismissal. It actually only took DPS 3 weeks from the time application was complete to plastic in hand, and I they didn't ask for my disposition paperwork

Simply dismissing a deferred adjudication will not render the applicant eligible for an LTC. The order must set aside everything including the deferred adjudication itself.

Chas.

I agree. I think OP would have to clarify if his lawyer was actually referring to deferred adjudication or something else. My personal experience was a deferred disposition resulting in a dismissal.

What a stupid thing to overburden the court system with. I hope you beat this.

If you take a deferred adjudication on this, you will not have an LTC for at least five years.

Chas.

personally I think that is a rude and offensive gesture and I don't understand people who do it to others, but it's certainly not ticket worthy.

Keith B wrote:Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately a Disorderly Conduct charge under Texas Penal Code 42.01 is a disqualifier, and a differed adjudication in Texas is considered the same as a conviction for purposes of LTC.

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY.
Text of subsection effective on Jan. 1, 2016
(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a handgun if the person:
.........
(8) has not, in the five years preceding the date of application, been convicted
of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense or of an offense
under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense;

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
........
(4) “Convicted” means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in
Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against a
person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of
the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from
community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or
an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided, or sealed
under any state or federal law.

So, you may be eligible for a Florida license, but not sure of their requirements from a misdemeanor standpoint.

Sorry.Maybe I did'nt make the fact clear that I have had a CHL for almost nine years. Will I have to surrender it taking the probation deal?