TexasCHLforum.com

Irrational Houston Faculty Come Unhinged Over Campus Carry

A slide show was presented at a recent discussion regarding the Texas state law which will allow students (and faculty members) to legally conceal carry on school campuses statewide. The slideshow says, in part, that faculty may not want to “go there” to avoid creating a tense situation in their classroom, suggesting their law-abiding students may very well draw their weapon if they don’t like what they hear.

I looked up the senate president, Jonathan Snow, and found his email address at Jonathan Snow. This is the email I sent him:

Dear Dr. Snow,

I read with concern your comments in a recent Houston Chronicle article (UH faculty suggest steering clear of some topics if students armed - Houston Chronicle) in which you are quoted as saying: "Academics know the intrusion of gun culture into campus inevitably harms academic culture." As a scientist, do you have any statistical evidence to back up that statement?

What is objectively and empirically proven is that concealed handgun permit holders are among the most law-abiding citizens in Texas, if not THE most law-abiding citizens, with an almost non-existent record of committing crimes. Please see https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/R ... rt2014.pdf. As you peruse this report, you may notice the overwhelming number of 0% for crimes committed by CHL holders. For 2014, the total offenses committed in Texas were 47,413, of which an astoundingly low 111 crimes were committed by CHL holders, representing just 0.2341% of the total.

Moving beyond the statistics, CHL holders are required to be fingerprinted and undergo a background check conducted by both the Texas Department of Public Safety and the FBI. They must also take a handgun safety course and prove proficiency in Texas laws concerning use of a deadly weapon. The minimum age to receive a CHL is 21, which means that most students on campus would not even have a CHL.

Let's take a look at the logic behind the faculty's fears. The UH faculty senate passed a resolution stating "The diverse academic communities and free academic discourse are especially threatened by the presence of deadly weapons in teaching, research and living spaces, "How does the very presence of a gun or knife threaten anyone? Guns and knives and other deadly weapons don't shoot or stab by themselves. They require the action of a human. Hands can also be deadly weapons. So the issue isn't the presence of an object, but the presence of humans intent on causing harm. Legislation and resolutions can do nothing to prevent a human who is intent on inflicting harm from doing so. Banning guns on campus will only prevent law-abiding citizens from carrying on campus. Criminals and those intent on causing harm will not, and have not, been prevented from acting by signs, resolutions, laws, and fear.

I saw this slide as part of a presentation that was made at a recent discussion:



The above advice might be warranted for all students, or specifically for any student that the faculty senses is exhibiting errant or disturbing behavior, but there is no reason to believe that only students with a CHL should be included in this advice. Dropping 'certain topics' from a curriculum because of 'fear' regarding a sub-set of students smacks of fear-mongering and discrimination. A college campus should be a model forum for discussing all topics in a civil, calm manner, with room made for different opinions and viewpoints.

What the Senate will accomplish if guns are banned on campus will be to create a gun-free zone where homicidal maniacs can act with impunity and have no fear of people on campus defending themselves. I urge you to reconsider your proposals and allow concealed carry on campus, because otherwise, the only people who will have guns on campus will be criminals.

Sincerely,

Ben [name]
[address]
[phone]

Very well written. Nicely done.

I like the e-mail as well, I think I would have refrained from using the term "deadly weapons" except as quoting staff. But overall I like it, I don't know if any minds will be changed, but at least there may be some intelligent discussion, even if it only comes from you.

Good point, jusme. I'll note that for future discussions!

Already Running

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=82890

Dr. Snow replied to my email:

Dear Mr. -,

Thank you for your thoughtful email. I am well familiar with the assertions you make regarding CHL holders. I would be interested in knowing what your familiarity is with campus culture. Have you ever taught university students or advised them in a professional capacity? Have you ever mentored students or faculty?

My presentation to *faculty* had to do with faculty and their interaction with students. So far, nationwide no faculty member, even ones who own guns and are in favor of 2A rights, as I am, have taken exception to the topics I have raised. Many people from outside the campus community have taken it upon themselves to instruct me how to interact with students and fellow faculty.

I would be interested in your perspective on the issue of power and its expression in the classroom, especially if it is informed by some experience in that setting.

Sincerely,

Jon Snow

And this is my response:

Dear Dr. Snow,

Thank you for your reply. I don't understand why I have to be familiar with 'campus culture' in order to make my points I've never taught or advised university students, but I believe that people are people and we can engage in dialog with anyone in a rational, calm manner, unless a specific person demonstrates that they are unable or unwilling to do so. Dealing with students on campus is no different than dealing with people in a mall, an office, or on the freeway.

Are you saying that 'campus culture' is so out of control that professors are seriously considering not discussing topics that might offend students? If that's the case, we have a more serious issue. Students could possibly be offended by any topic, which would make all topics possible off-limits. I doubt that's the goal of a higher education.

You assert that 'nationwide no faculty member' has taken exception to the topics you've raised. Even if that is demonstrably true, is what you are saying true and unassailable? You state that "Many people from outside the campus community have taken it upon themselves to instruct me how to interact with students and fellow faculty." Does this mean that professors and faculty can only be instructed by other professors and faculty? Given that the University of Houston is a public institution of higher learning, funded by taxes, then all citizens have a right to make their opinions known to professors and faculty of that institution. You are servants of the public and the public has a right to let you know how they feel.

My perspective on the issue of 'power and it's expression in the classroom', is that generally, the professors have the power. Although I don't have recent experience, I was a student once, and my kids are college students now. The professors have the power - to control the class, to influence their students' thinking, and to set expectations in the classroom.

Guns are inanimate objects and a fear of inanimate objects is irrational. It's ironic that Texas grants the privilege of driving to persons from the age of 16 and up, and many young drivers drive irresponsibly and dangerously. Yet no one has called for the banning of automobiles on campus. Concealed carry is available to citizens 21 years and older who have demonstrated good citizenship, responsibility, and have passed a criminal background check. Those are the kinds of students you should WELCOME into your classrooms.

Sincerely,

Ben

Excellent response Ben! Well thought out and articulated. Well done!

Thank you for opening this dialogue, not only with the professor but posting the responses and opening it to us. One of the difficulties with gun rights discussion is that emotions come in to play rather quickly. So far, the emails are civil, points properly and strongly argued. Keep us updated and thanks again.

BenGoodLuck wrote:Dr. Snow replied to my email:

Dear Mr. -,

Thank you for your thoughtful email. I am well familiar with the assertions you make regarding CHL holders. I would be interested in knowing what your familiarity is with campus culture. Have you ever taught university students or advised them in a professional capacity? Have you ever mentored students or faculty?

My presentation to *faculty* had to do with faculty and their interaction with students. So far, nationwide no faculty member, even ones who own guns and are in favor of 2A rights, as I am, have taken exception to the topics I have raised. Many people from outside the campus community have taken it upon themselves to instruct me how to interact with students and fellow faculty.

I would be interested in your perspective on the issue of power and its expression in the classroom, especially if it is informed by some experience in that setting.

Sincerely,

Jon Snow

"So far, nationwide no faculty member, even ones who own guns and are in favor of 2A rights, as I am, have taken exception to the topics I have raised."

I guess that's mostly true that most faculty are against 2A rights. A Freudian slip, perhaps? At any rate Jon Snow is mistaken about no college profs not supporting Campus Carry: https://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-all ... 1087289056

If you answer back to him ask him how many profs get pepper sprayed or tasered by their students.

It makes me very happy that Jeff Allen works for UNT.

BenGoodLuck wrote:Irrational Houston Faculty Come Unhinged Over Campus Carry

A slide show was presented at a recent discussion regarding the Texas state law which will allow students (and faculty members) to legally conceal carry on school campuses statewide. The slideshow says, in part, that faculty may not want to “go there” to avoid creating a tense situation in their classroom, suggesting their law-abiding students may very well draw their weapon if they don’t like what they hear.

I looked up the senate president, Jonathan Snow, and found his email address at Jonathan Snow. This is the email I sent him:

Dear Dr. Snow,

I read with concern your comments in a recent Houston Chronicle article (UH faculty suggest steering clear of some topics if students armed - Houston Chronicle) in which you are quoted as saying: "Academics know the intrusion of gun culture into campus inevitably harms academic culture." As a scientist, do you have any statistical evidence to back up that statement?

What is objectively and empirically proven is that concealed handgun permit holders are among the most law-abiding citizens in Texas, if not THE most law-abiding citizens, with an almost non-existent record of committing crimes. Please see https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/R ... rt2014.pdf. As you peruse this report, you may notice the overwhelming number of 0% for crimes committed by CHL holders. For 2014, the total offenses committed in Texas were 47,413, of which an astoundingly low 111 crimes were committed by CHL holders, representing just 0.2341% of the total.

Moving beyond the statistics, CHL holders are required to be fingerprinted and undergo a background check conducted by both the Texas Department of Public Safety and the FBI. They must also take a handgun safety course and prove proficiency in Texas laws concerning use of a deadly weapon. The minimum age to receive a CHL is 21, which means that most students on campus would not even have a CHL.

Let's take a look at the logic behind the faculty's fears. The UH faculty senate passed a resolution stating "The diverse academic communities and free academic discourse are especially threatened by the presence of deadly weapons in teaching, research and living spaces, "How does the very presence of a gun or knife threaten anyone? Guns and knives and other deadly weapons don't shoot or stab by themselves. They require the action of a human. Hands can also be deadly weapons. So the issue isn't the presence of an object, but the presence of humans intent on causing harm. Legislation and resolutions can do nothing to prevent a human who is intent on inflicting harm from doing so. Banning guns on campus will only prevent law-abiding citizens from carrying on campus. Criminals and those intent on causing harm will not, and have not, been prevented from acting by signs, resolutions, laws, and fear.

I saw this slide as part of a presentation that was made at a recent discussion:



The above advice might be warranted for all students, or specifically for any student that the faculty senses is exhibiting errant or disturbing behavior, but there is no reason to believe that only students with a CHL should be included in this advice. Dropping 'certain topics' from a curriculum because of 'fear' regarding a sub-set of students smacks of fear-mongering and discrimination. A college campus should be a model forum for discussing all topics in a civil, calm manner, with room made for different opinions and viewpoints.

What the Senate will accomplish if guns are banned on campus will be to create a gun-free zone where homicidal maniacs can act with impunity and have no fear of people on campus defending themselves. I urge you to reconsider your proposals and allow concealed carry on campus, because otherwise, the only people who will have guns on campus will be criminals.

Sincerely,

Ben [name]
[address]
[phone]

Great letter, but one minor correction. The percentage is 0.002341% not 0.2341%.

Great response.

I am curious about this line from Dr. Snow.

I would be interested in your perspective on the issue of power and its expression in the classroom, especially if it is informed by some experience in that setting.

What does "power"have to do with learning, especially at the collegiate level? We are talking about (at least age wise) adults. Do the professors feel they need more power than the fact the students enrolled in their courses, for the opportunity to learn? Additionally, the professors can decide the students' grade in that class? And what power do they have now that would be taken away by the possibility that a student may hold a LTC and be carrying a concealed handgun. Is there that much discord in the classrooms at U of H that there has to be dictatorial control? Have they had professors attacked in the past? And what safeguards did have they had in the past to prevent a student from attacking a professor before the passage of Campus Carry?

I seriously doubt that Dr. Snow is a 2A supporter, it is still a case of we don't like guns so we don't want anyone to have them.

I also noticed that he never addressed you question regarding scientific data.

The response of Snow does not surprise me. University professors are very protective of their territory. The large majority (not all) of these people only teach what they have been told, they have very little or no real world experience in the subject they are teaching. That is where the saying, "them that can - do, them that can't - teach", has some truth in it. I wonder what experiences Snow has had that would make him think the way he does? For these people, facts often get in the way of their thinking or visa versa.

Just sayin

Jusme wrote: I also noticed that he never addressed you question regarding scientific data.

If he did he would probably point out that the "scientific data" had too many significant figures.

I would be interested in your perspective on the issue of power and its expression in the classroom, especially if it is informed by some experience in that setting.

I am with Jusme on this statement by the professor. An "institute of higher learning" should be, among other things, a marketplace of ideas. In this marketplace, there will inevitably be wildly divergent ideas that can and should be openly discussed without fear of sudden, catastrophic repercussions. Doctor Snow seems to believe that the presence of a firearm (even one concealed and unknown to anyone but the person carrying it) will inevitably result in "an expression of power" (we would know it better as use of force or use of deadly force) in the form of producing the firearm to intimidate or even harm others. The record of LTC holders as far-and-away more apt to be law abiding than other citizens is irrelevant to him and his argument since the presence of a tool means it necessarily will be used.

The professor's tone, insinuating that any viewpoint about classroom policy or tactics not coming from a professor/teacher/instructor cannot be relevant, paints him as an elite. I can only imagine that his classroom demeanor is to escalate arguments against students who don't support his particular views, perhaps viciously, and the thought that someone who disagrees with him in his class might really have the ability to harm him probably frightens him more than a little. It is only a little ironic that each student in that class already comes there with tools that could be used quite effectively against him and he doesn't concern himself one bit about that. It has often been said that results are not achieved by the tool, but by the man wielding it to his desired ends. Dr. Snow doesn't seem familiar with this concept.