TexasCHLforum.com

My wife ran across this video on a Facebook page she follows for people who grew up in Pasadena, California. It's a training film produced in the 1970s for the Pasadena police dept. it's about when it's appropriate to get the shotgun out of the car, and when it's not. The old look of the city has a lot of memories for me. The shooting range where the training officer is speaking is the old Eaton Canyon range which used to be open to the public too, but as housing developments in the hills went in, it is now pretty much restricted to limited police use.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BVuKy8Snb ... e=youtu.be

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

Thanks for the post TAM.

I enjoy seeing some of these old training videos. The officer giving the demo, did make some incorrect statements that have perpetuated the myth of the shotgun, in that he said you don't have to aim it, you can just point and blast the guy. He also said that the psychological effect of a shotgun was often enough to stop the threat. He also had poor trigger discipline while holding both shotgun and his handgun.

I agree that if you decide to use the shotgun, you better know it's limitations, and not try to engage a threat at 50 yards. Also, a shotgun limits your mobility and your ability to use your hands for anything else, especially without a sling. If you practice enough with a shotgun and pattern different loads you will find out that there are very reliable consistencies in the trajectories, despite his assertion that no two shots are the same. I know that there have been a lot of technological improvement in shotgun loads since the seventies, so his views were probably based on what was available at the time, along with some anecdotal theories of the day.

Interesting. Thanks for the post.

I find old police and shooting training videos very interesting. It's interesting, sometimes disturbing, to see how things have changed and morphed into what we now have.

I also enjoy contrasting how techniques have evolved.

Jusme wrote:Thanks for the post TAM.

I enjoy seeing some of these old training videos. The officer giving the demo, did make some incorrect statements that have perpetuated the myth of the shotgun, in that he said you don't have to aim it, you can just point and blast the guy. He also said that the psychological effect of a shotgun was often enough to stop the threat. He also had poor trigger discipline while holding both shotgun and his handgun.

I agree that if you decide to use the shotgun, you better know it's limitations, and not try to engage a threat at 50 yards. Also, a shotgun limits your mobility and your ability to use your hands for anything else, especially without a sling. If you practice enough with a shotgun and pattern different loads you will find out that there are very reliable consistencies in the trajectories, despite his assertion that no two shots are the same. I know that there have been a lot of technological improvement in shotgun loads since the seventies, so his views were probably based on what was available at the time, along with some anecdotal theories of the day.

Yeah, I had the same impression about the myth of the shotgun. I actually just fired my 20" barreled 590A1 for the first time a little over a week ago, out at ETTS. I was hitting a 2/3 scale IPSC steel plate at about 50-60 yards, with every single shot. Now, occasionally, one or two the pellets would miss the pate and hit the berm behind it. If it were me, with my shotgun, in that video, there is some chance that I might have winged one of the bystanders that was well behind him, to the right of the subject. But there is ZERO chance I would have hit the person over by the curb at their car. That victim was 5 or 6 ft off to the side, at about the same distance as the perp was at. No well made 18" or longer barreled shotgun is going to pattern buckshot that loosely. But obviously, 50-60 yards is not an optimum distance for the shotgun. OTH, I've seen video of people using the exact same shotgun I have to hit steel plates at 100 yards using slugs. Not that I'd recommend that, especially in a self-defense situation, but a shotgun is a lot more capable weapon than the video gives it credit for.

In fact, the video kind of solidified my decision to keep the shotgun in the car, instead of a carbine. I bought a bandolier like the one you showed me, and it's got a WHOLE lot of shotshells and slugs in it, plus the 8 rounds of 00 Buck in the magazine tube. Between a G17 or G19, plus spare mags for those, plus that bandolier and the shotgun, it seems like MORE than enough for what I'm likely to ever encounter........from a robbery, to getting caught up in a riot, to a hog that needs dealing with, to a [insert catastrophe here], to a wedding. I was very impressed with that shotgun's ability to hit accurately at decent distances. The load I was using was NSI Law Enforcement consisting of 1 .650" round ball with 6 #1 Buck pellets, at 1300 fps (presumably from an 18" barrel).

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Jusme wrote:Thanks for the post TAM.

I enjoy seeing some of these old training videos. The officer giving the demo, did make some incorrect statements that have perpetuated the myth of the shotgun, in that he said you don't have to aim it, you can just point and blast the guy. He also said that the psychological effect of a shotgun was often enough to stop the threat. He also had poor trigger discipline while holding both shotgun and his handgun.

I agree that if you decide to use the shotgun, you better know it's limitations, and not try to engage a threat at 50 yards. Also, a shotgun limits your mobility and your ability to use your hands for anything else, especially without a sling. If you practice enough with a shotgun and pattern different loads you will find out that there are very reliable consistencies in the trajectories, despite his assertion that no two shots are the same. I know that there have been a lot of technological improvement in shotgun loads since the seventies, so his views were probably based on what was available at the time, along with some anecdotal theories of the day.

Yeah, I had the same impression about the myth of the shotgun. I actually just fired my 20" barreled 590A1 for the first time a little over a week ago, out at ETTS. I was hitting a 2/3 scale IPSC steel plate at about 50-60 yards, with every single shot. Now, occasionally, one or two the pellets would miss the pate and hit the berm behind it. If it were me, with my shotgun, in that video, there is some chance that I might have winged one of the bystanders that was well behind him, to the right of the subject. But there is ZERO chance I would have hit the person over by the curb at their car. That victim was 5 or 6 ft off to the side, at about the same distance as the perp was at. No well made 18" or longer barreled shotgun is going to pattern buckshot that loosely. But obviously, 50-60 yards is not an optimum distance for the shotgun. OTH, I've seen video of people using the exact same shotgun I have to hit steel plates at 100 yards using slugs. Not that I'd recommend that, especially in a self-defense situation, but a shotgun is a lot more capable weapon than the video gives it credit for.

In fact, the video kind of solidified my decision to keep the shotgun in the car, instead of a carbine. I bought a bandolier like the one you showed me, and it's got a WHOLE lot of shotshells and slugs in it, plus the 8 rounds of 00 Buck in the magazine tube. Between a G17 or G19, plus spare mags for those, plus that bandolier and the shotgun, it seems like MORE than enough for what I'm likely to ever encounter........from a robbery, to getting caught up in a riot, to a hog that needs dealing with, to a [insert catastrophe here], to a wedding. I was very impressed with that shotgun's ability to hit accurately at decent distances. The load I was using was NSI Law Enforcement consisting of 1 .650" round ball with 6 #1 Buck pellets, at 1300 fps (presumably from an 18" barrel).

Yeah I got the impression that the trainer/narrator was biased towards shotguns and felt his six shot revolver was a better weapon in almost all circumstances. Of course at the time, and for many departments today, they still use only #4 buck. It is devastating at close range, but it will spread much faster and lose velocity much quicker, and doesn't have the penetration performance that #1,#00, or slugs,have. If you use flight control rounds, the pattern is very consistent and holds together at even greater distances. I still wouldn't want to use it at over 25-30 yards especially if there are innocents in the area, but it is still very lethal at 50-60 yards. Also with a sling, on your shotgun, you can easily transfer to a handgun if necessary, or have your hands free for other tasks.