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There is a bar and grill not too far from where I live in a rural area. They have good food, and the wife and I like to go there a couple of times a month. I have CC or OC there every time I go. When I OC no one has said anything to me at all.

The other day I was talking to a young friend who just took his LTC course, and he mentioned that he had a niece that bartended at this restaurant and had asked her if they had any signs about guns posted. He was planning ahead for when he gets his plastic, and just wanted to know if he could carry there. She then texted him their sign, and he showed it to me while we were having a discussion. Boy was I surprised to see the sign was a 51% sign! I had never noticed it during all the times that I carried there. I asked him to find out where the sign was, and she told him it was on the wall behind the bar.

When the wife and I eat there, I have never sat at the bar so I never saw the sign. But, the bar and the restaurant are just one area with the bar along one wall and there is no partition wall or anything between the bar stools and the rest of the seating. It is not a big place, maybe seats 40 - 50 in the restaurant seating area and another 8 -10 on the bar stools.

Today, I looked them up on the TABC website and found they are supposed to post the blue sign, not the 51% sign. Knowing something about the owners, it would not surprise me at all if they had not put up this sign to keep guns out even thought there license does not require it. The possibility also exists that the sign is left over from a previous term on their license, and their mix of food to alcohol has now changed.

I like this place, and so does the wife. Living in a rural area we don't have much to choose from in the way of restaurants, and they have the best food for 20 miles. I don't want to be unarmed, and I certainly don't want to carry past a 51% sign. I can just see myself arguing with the local constable about how I knew that the sign was invalid.

How would you handle this? I'm looking for advice here. If I show them why I know they have up the wrong sign, there is a big risk that they will just put up 30.06/30.07 signs.

Report them to TABC for posting the wrong sign. They are required by regulation to post the correct one.

In the meantime, if you want to go there, just conceal...that is if you can bear the shame of knowing you are not following the wishes of the owner.

You can alert the TABC online. I used it a month or so ago to report a pizza place with a red sign. There was NO way they sold more beer than pizza.

A week or so later, I drove by and the red sign was gone.

You can look online to verify the license they have.

ScottDLS wrote:Report them to TABC for posting the wrong sign. They are required by regulation to post the correct one.

In the meantime, if you want to go there, just conceal...that is if you can bear the shame of knowing you are not following the wishes of the owner.

I would definitely report them, I don't know if it is intentional or just a case of being misinformed. The TABC probably hasn't been in since the sign was posted, and no one has said anything. However, I don't recommend carrying anyway, just on the off chance that it is legitimate, and the TABC hasn't updated their site. Not much of a defense to prosecution despite the low chance that you will noticed CCing. JMHO.

Thank you forum members. I did not know the TABC had a system on line for reporting the wrong signs. I have just now filled out a report.

Thanks again.

A recommendation: Do report them to TABC (https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcemen ... cation.asp), but when you complete the form make no mention of your 2A rights or LTC issues. Simply state that the facility has the red 51% sign posted and, based on your search of TABC records, you believe that to be incorrect signage.

Missed him by this much...

Skiprr wrote:A recommendation: Do report them to TABC (https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcemen ... cation.asp), but when you complete the form make no mention of your 2A rights or LTC issues. Simply state that the facility has the red 51% sign posted and, based on your search of TABC records, you believe that to be incorrect signage.

OOps, too late. I already filed the report.

Lynyrd wrote:

Skiprr wrote:A recommendation: Do report them to TABC (https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcemen ... cation.asp), but when you complete the form make no mention of your 2A rights or LTC issues. Simply state that the facility has the red 51% sign posted and, based on your search of TABC records, you believe that to be incorrect signage.

OOps, too late. I already filed the report.

Yeah the TABC is not 2A friendly. They don't believe that anyone should have a gun anywhere around alcoholic beverages as if one or the other can cause harm without human intervention. The only place that you cannot carry long guns, in Texas is in a TABC permitted premise, including grocery stores, restaurants etc..

From conversations I've had with my local rural bar and grill, despite not actually being a 51% establishment, the TABC told them to still post the sign since they applied for an extended license to sell alcohol until 2am. Their grill closes at 9pm. I wish I could remember the conversation now.

They did NOT want to post it, but they also didn't want any trouble from the TABC. Thankfully since our town is so tiny they said they didn't care if people CC inside but they are dubious of outsiders.

LosAlce wrote:From conversations I've had with my local rural bar and grill, despite not actually being a 51% establishment, the TABC told them to still post the sign since they applied for an extended license to sell alcohol until 2am. Their grill closes at 9pm. I wish I could remember the conversation now.

They did NOT want to post it, but they also didn't want any trouble from the TABC. Thankfully since our town is so tiny they said they didn't care if people CC inside but they are dubious of outsiders.

They may not want to enforce the TABC regulation, but if they "knowingly" do so they jeopardize their license. Also if a LTC holder is caught carrying there, even concealed, it will be their LTC on the line. They can avoid the issue by keeping their grill open until "last call"

If I'm going to eat and have a beer with dinner I carry. If I'm going out to drink, I don't carry and I don't drive. I guess some people need signs telling them what they should do. It's those people that are the reason we have these signs in the first place I guess. Life use to be so easy until some people made it difficult. "Idle hands are the devil's workshop."

LosAlce wrote:From conversations I've had with my local rural bar and grill, despite not actually being a 51% establishment, the TABC told them to still post the sign since they applied for an extended license to sell alcohol until 2am. Their grill closes at 9pm. I wish I could remember the conversation now.

They did NOT want to post it, but they also didn't want any trouble from the TABC. Thankfully since our town is so tiny they said they didn't care if people CC inside but they are dubious of outsiders.

I hope that is not what happened here. This little place serves a really good breakfast, which is mainly when the wife and I go there. I also sometimes go there for lunch on weekends when the misses is out shopping. I know they have live music on weekend nights but they close at 11 and serve food until 10.

Jusme wrote:

Lynyrd wrote:

Skiprr wrote:A recommendation: Do report them to TABC (https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcemen ... cation.asp), but when you complete the form make no mention of your 2A rights or LTC issues. Simply state that the facility has the red 51% sign posted and, based on your search of TABC records, you believe that to be incorrect signage.

OOps, too late. I already filed the report.

Yeah the TABC is not 2A friendly. They don't believe that anyone should have a gun anywhere around alcoholic beverages as if one or the other can cause harm without human intervention. The only place that you cannot carry long guns, in Texas is in a TABC permitted premise, including grocery stores, restaurants etc..

It's not a crime to carry long guns in a TABC licensed premises, but TABC will fine/revoke the owner if they find out that they "let" you do it. That's why concealed (rifle) means concealed!

Jusme wrote:

LosAlce wrote:From conversations I've had with my local rural bar and grill, despite not actually being a 51% establishment, the TABC told them to still post the sign since they applied for an extended license to sell alcohol until 2am. Their grill closes at 9pm. I wish I could remember the conversation now.

They did NOT want to post it, but they also didn't want any trouble from the TABC. Thankfully since our town is so tiny they said they didn't care if people CC inside but they are dubious of outsiders.

They may not want to enforce the TABC regulation, but if they "knowingly" do so they jeopardize their license. Also if a LTC holder is caught carrying there, even concealed, it will be their LTC on the line. They can avoid the issue by keeping their grill open until "last call"

They aren't telling people to do so and if anyone makes the choice to do so regardless of the sign, that's just the chance they take. They won't know either way because concealed is concealed.