TexasCHLforum.com

Bullhead Police executing a stolen weapons warrant. One officer injured and suspect fatally shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVzwEKezFIE

I am surprised that the police waited so long before they shot the armed suspect.
He had plenty of warning and chance to surrender.

Wow! That's FAST!!
This is why police shoot if the suspect has a gun and does not follow orders. OR, suspect does not make it VERY CLEAR that de does not have a gun. I'm sorry, IMO you are responsible for your own safety.

IMO you are responsible for your own safety

Not in this country, If something bad happens to you it has to be someone else's fault. Thanks to the lawyers!!!

Took less than a second to raise his arm and shoot twice. That's eye opening and a scary thought. Makes you think twice about giving someone the benefit of doubt, well.. maybe not think twice. Just not allow it.

In no way criticizing the police tactics in this video, but I wonder what would have happened if one of the officers had already had a shotgun with bean bag rounds trained on the suspect. Instead of their first action being a taser shot, it could have been a bean bag to the midsection, which might have more thoroughly disrupted the suspect's reactive abilities to being shot with something.

Is there a reason that police don't use a bean bag rounds in a situation like this. Are they less effective? Or are there other risks involved that make them undesirable?

The Annoyed Man wrote:In no way criticizing the police tactics in this video, but I wonder what would have happened if one of the officers had already had a shotgun with bean bag rounds trained on the suspect. Instead of their first action being a taser shot, it could have been a bean bag to the midsection, which might have more thoroughly disrupted the suspect's reactive abilities to being shot with something.

Is there a reason that police don't use a bean bag rounds in a situation like this. Are they less effective? Or are there other risks involved that make them undesirable?

TAM, There are aspects of the actions taken by the team that I believe were questionable. I reserved any comment on that part and just wanted to show how quickly this degraded to what we saw on the video. I thought it was important, not just from a law enforcement aspect, but for us as CHL's when and if confronted with an armed adversary. I don't know if a bean bag would have worked or not.

Reacting is always slower than acting. The cops let the suspect get way ahead of them in the ooda loop. I agree with TAM above. They should have warned him once or twice and withnon compliance put a bean bag round into him. Or had the tazer ready to go and zapped him as soon as they realized he was armed. That my monday morning quarterbacking anyway...

In my experience, the Officers may not have a "bean bag" shotgun available at the moment. Although the shotgun is a normal 12ga cylinder bore, they are usually designated to fire bean bags and so marked as to not load the shotgun with more lethal projectiles.

I don't think a taser should be considered at all since the suspect was armed. The main reason is my understanding is that one of the problems with a taser is that it is only effective below impact - that is if they hit him too low his arms are not effectively disabled. I may be mistaken but If true then making an effective taser shot high enough to disable an armed person in the above video would be very difficult. Plus, if the suspects finger is on the trigger and is tasered effectively would it cause him to pull the trigger?

I really hate when officers are put in a situation where their lives are in danger longer than necessary. I understand and agree with trying to talk him down by ordering him to drop the weapon. But once he refused repeated commands it is not worth risking officers lives and safety.

rtschl wrote:I don't think a taser should be considered at all since the suspect was armed. The main reason is my understanding is that one of the problems with a taser is that it is only effective below impact - that is if they hit him too low his arms are not effectively disabled. I may be mistaken but If true then making an effective taser shot high enough to disable an armed person in the above video would be very difficult. Plus, if the suspects finger is on the trigger and is tasered effectively would it cause him to pull the trigger?

I really hate when officers are put in a situation where their lives are in danger longer than necessary. I understand and agree with trying to talk him down by ordering him to drop the weapon. But once he refused repeated commands it is not worth risking officers lives and safety.

With a taser too, there is always the risk that the bad guy might convulsively squeeze the trigger. Electricity does things to muscles.

I am a bit curious who this was and what he was into. Opening your door to a group of SWAT guys with rifles pointed at you and you still have a pistol in your hand? You might fight, but you won't win.

It was nice to see they knocked and waited for an answer.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

rtschl wrote:I don't think a taser should be considered at all since the suspect was armed. The main reason is my understanding is that one of the problems with a taser is that it is only effective below impact - that is if they hit him too low his arms are not effectively disabled. I may be mistaken but If true then making an effective taser shot high enough to disable an armed person in the above video would be very difficult. Plus, if the suspects finger is on the trigger and is tasered effectively would it cause him to pull the trigger?

I really hate when officers are put in a situation where their lives are in danger longer than necessary. I understand and agree with trying to talk him down by ordering him to drop the weapon. But once he refused repeated commands it is not worth risking officers lives and safety.

With a taser too, there is always the risk that the bad guy might convulsively squeeze the trigger. Electricity does things to muscles.

They will squeeze the trigger when tased. Your whole body tenses up and is sore for days after. Will still take the taser again over OC spray any day.

Back when I was young and stupid, (is there any other way), I was in the Army and went through the gas chamber. I will tell you that I DID NOT like that. Later we had to get gassed with a crowd control gas and that was even worse.

I got tasered in a training class and I NEVER WANT TO AGAIN!