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Tell me again how birdshot is an adequate load for self-defense.

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Yeah, they prefer it in maximum security prisons to break up inmate fights and at close range. Sometimes an eye gets lost, but it shuts down a couple rowdy inmates pretty quick.

I've seen members posting here that they would use birdshot in the opening couple of rounds in their magazines, backed up by buckshot, then slugs. I've always been suspicious of the effectiveness of birdshot beyond a few yards, and I can't imagine anything that birdshot will do that buckshot won't....unless it is overpenetration one is worried about, but even so......

I could see round 1 (and maybe 2) being birdshot. Maybe, just maybe, they'll chase off the intruder. But if not, the following rounds, however, would absolutely be buckshot and the last 2-4 rounds slugs. Of course, TBH, I'm more likely to go AR or 1911 during a home invasion. Right now I'm setup for AR in my hands and 1911 in my finance's hands. We don't own a shotgun....yet.

I don't *want* to kill someone (even an intruder). I just want to stop the threat.

One problem with shotguns is that they have limited ammo (mine holds 7+1) and they're slow to load. What possible reason would I have to effectively download my shotgun to 6 rounds by putting 2 ineffective birdshot rounds up first? It doesn't make sense. You're gambling with the lives of you and anyone else you care for.

Anyone who enters your home unbidden is not there for any feel good reasons. He's there to do harm. My goal is to stop him NOW, I don't want to kill anyone either, but he's the one that set the low value on his life.

Using birdshot is taking a risk even if it's just the first two rounds or so. What if the dude is all jacked up on drugs? Many of those situations they get shot with pistols and keep goin or get tased and keep going. A well placed shot of 00 or a slug will knock em to their knees. I'm not taking a chance with somebody trying to hurt me or my family. If they have made that decision and I have made it to shoot it's not going to be to scare them off it's going to be to stop the threat.

Everyone can make their own decisions about what to load in their HD shotguns. I use bird shot for it's designed use. I shoot birds with it. I agree, it can cause severe wounds, at close range, but I don't trust it to stop a threat. I am not one looking to fill up cemeteries, with the bodies of criminals, but, I am in no hurry to use my plot.

There are several videos on line, that show the effectiveness of bird shot into everything from ballistic gelatin to, hogs. At much further than "contact distance" it loses effectiveness very quickly. Buckshot pellets, being much larger, maintain their effective range much further. I am a huge proponent of the Federal Flight control rounds. I use #1 buck, but #00 with flight control is also very devastating. As with anything used, inside the home, for defense, you have to know exactly what is around, and behind your target. There is a lot of talk about fear of "over penetration" but I have not heard of any HD situation where the BG was shot, and innocents being hit by rounds going through him. It may have happened, but I don't recall the case or cases. Most unintended victims happen when the BG is completely missed, and rounds go somewhere else.

If I am going to shoot one, in self defense, most likely he is armed with deadly weapon. Thus, Center mass double tap, headshot if he is still up. Rinse, repeat, as needed.

If you need to use a shotgun, a slug is the way to go, devastating.

Beiruty wrote:If you need to use a shotgun, a slug is the way to go, devastating.

Absolutely. I have all 6 rounds loaded with slugs. If a BG is in my house, I want there to be no doubt that he is stopped to a point he cannot continue. I know that last sentence sounds funny but I have seen druggies hit, stopped then they get up and start coming at you again.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I've seen members posting here that they would use birdshot in the opening couple of rounds in their magazines, backed up by buckshot, then slugs. I've always been suspicious of the effectiveness of birdshot beyond a few yards, and I can't imagine anything that birdshot will do that buckshot won't....unless it is overpenetration one is worried about, but even so......

I'm with you, TAM. My 12 gauge HD load is 00 buck.

The most effective stopping strategy is MSP - multiple, simultaneous, and penetrating hits. That's why automatic firearms and shotguns with proper loads have very high stoppage success rates. Birdshot fails on the last criterion.

Nine or 12 .33 caliber pellets have the same effect as being hit with 9 or 12 .32 pistol rounds at exactly the same time. If delivered to center mass, that's a lot of major organ damage and a lot of plumbing leaks that make it very difficult to continue an attack.

The first shooting I responded to in my EMS days was a drug deal gone bad. Victim was shot in the back at close range with birdshot. He bled out and was pronounced at the ER. The shot perforated the coronary arteries.

I am not advocating bird shot for self defense but we all know that Shot placement, Shot placement and Shot placement are the keys to stopping a bad guy.

If all you have is bird shot use it.

If "not injured", I have a hard time believing the felon even hit the cop.

At just 50 feet (about 17 yards) the pattern was likely less than 2 feet. And even birdshot on bare skin would certainly cause SOME injury.

With that said, birdshot IS for BIRDS.

Something is definitely off about this. Have a friend over 30 years ago was shot at about 75 feet with birdshot in a kidnapping/abduction attempt. She was hit on the side and had over 200 pellets in her face, arm and torso. To this day still has shot they could not remove from her due to being too close to nerves or vessels that over the years works its way to the surface of her skin.

Keith B wrote:Something is definitely off about this. Have a friend over 30 years ago was shot at about 75 feet with birdshot in a kidnapping/abduction attempt. She was hit on the side and had over 200 pellets in her face, arm and torso. To this day still has shot they could not remove from her due to being too close to nerves or vessels that over the years works its way to the surface of her skin.

I suspect the range was significantly greater than 50 feet and the officer was hit by just a few pellets on the edge of the pattern. Otherwise he would have been more than just annoyed.