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Not really sure where to post this, but I have a full size M1 M&P .40 and I've heard people say golden sabers are good for self defense, and some say hornady critical defense. However a buddy of mine suggested the hornady critical duty since I have a full size. He said that with critical defense in a full size, the slug won't reach its peak velocity... I know critical defense is meant for use against targets with only medium-thick clothing and critical duty are designed to penetrate barricades and still be able to penetrate the target and expand as intended. My concern is if I'm carrying critical duty and not behind a barricade of any kind, will the round over-penetrate? Anyone have thoughts on the matter or suggestions for a good self defense round to carry?

Critical Defense is best used in short barrels. The Critical Duty is best used in full sized firearms. In my full sized firearms I carry the Critical Duty some and I am not concerned with over penetration. The barrier you are referring to are like a windshield, glass, etc. . .

Alright, thanks. I guess if my life is in danger I wouldn't be too concerned with over-penetration, but during our LTC class our instructor gave a warning about over penetration and hitting a bystander and it kind of has me nervous about carrying a round that might over penetrate.

Lots of good info here.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-d ... tic-tests/

I carry 180gr Federal HST but use to carry the Critical Defense. Between the 2 Hornady loads, I wanted Critical Duty, just never could find any. Either one of the Hornady loads I would trust. Be more concerned about a miss than over penetration.

This is just Carlson theology, but I don't know that the over penetration is an issue with the modern day ammo. Just my thoughts.

jason812 wrote:... Be more concerned about a miss than over penetration.

100%

I posted the below on a different topic but it seems to apply here as well.

Not trying to be argumentative, but

I am not quite as concerned with over penetration as many people. When considering the hit percentages of LEOs ( I assume civilian as well) in gunfights, being aware of targets background is more import although not always possible.

This is just a quick scan of the internet for statistics but was close to my initial guess (12-15%) but at least 80% of their bullets went on with 100% energy.
https://internationalfreepress.com/2018 ... m-teachers


I shoot WFN solids and expanding FMJ along with the premium Gold dots and HSTs. Just make sure they are reliable and hit where they are supposed to. Best of luck.

Grundy1133 wrote:Not really sure where to post this, but I have a full size M1 M&P .40 and I've heard people say golden sabers are good for self defense, and some say hornady critical defense. However a buddy of mine suggested the hornady critical duty since I have a full size. He said that with critical defense in a full size, the slug won't reach its peak velocity... I know critical defense is meant for use against targets with only medium-thick clothing and critical duty are designed to penetrate barricades and still be able to penetrate the target and expand as intended. My concern is if I'm carrying critical duty and not behind a barricade of any kind, will the round over-penetrate? Anyone have thoughts on the matter or suggestions for a good self defense round to carry?

http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/04/28 ... pt-3-of-3/

bblhd672 wrote:

Grundy1133 wrote:Not really sure where to post this, but I have a full size M1 M&P .40 and I've heard people say golden sabers are good for self defense, and some say hornady critical defense. However a buddy of mine suggested the hornady critical duty since I have a full size. He said that with critical defense in a full size, the slug won't reach its peak velocity... I know critical defense is meant for use against targets with only medium-thick clothing and critical duty are designed to penetrate barricades and still be able to penetrate the target and expand as intended. My concern is if I'm carrying critical duty and not behind a barricade of any kind, will the round over-penetrate? Anyone have thoughts on the matter or suggestions for a good self defense round to carry?

http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/04/28 ... pt-3-of-3/

Ok i notice in that list that hornady critical duty is on the 9mm list and 45 list but not the S&W 40.... did they just forget it? because logic dictates that if it works for 9mm and .45 it should work for .40 also lol

I really like the Hornady XTP 124gr + P in full size and the regular 115 in my sub compacts. The xtp performs very well is very accurate and I whole heartled trust it along with a lot of others I know. The reason I shoot the hotter load in the full size is well because of the full size gun. The weight and size of the gun allow me to use a hotter load. I could carry the same load in my sub compacts but the 115 gr are less snappy and allow me quicker follow up shots and helps me to stay more accurate. When asking about SD ammo it is a can of worms. Almost any
modern HP ammo will do the trick. I think people get so worried that they don’t have the magical bullet. Honeslty I pray the only time I ever have to crank off my HP defensive ammo is when I’m rotating the old out to new fresh stuff. Stay safe and carry on, cheers

cmgee67 wrote:I really like the Hornady XTP 124gr + P in full size and the regular 115 in my sub compacts. The xtp performs very well is very accurate and I whole heartled trust it along with a lot of others I know. The reason I shoot the hotter load in the full size is well because of the full size gun. The weight and size of the gun allow me to use a hotter load. I could carry the same load in my sub compacts but the 115 gr are less snappy and allow me quicker follow up shots and helps me to stay more accurate. When asking about SD ammo it is a can of worms. Almost any
modern HP ammo will do the trick. I think people get so worried that they don’t have the magical bullet. Honeslty I pray the only time I ever have to crank off my HP defensive ammo is when I’m rotating the old out to new fresh stuff. Stay safe and carry on, cheers

one thing that really drew me to hornady critical duty is that they're waterproofed. the primers are coated with waterproof chemicala nd the casing is crimped to the slug so you dont have to worry about old ammo getting wet from sweating and humid temps (gotta love texas weather ). im not sure if other ammo is waterproof or not but between that and almost all my friends saying to use hornady, i think ill go with the hornady critical duty for my full size M&P 40

Never had a failure due to a wet primer. That includes mags full of various SD ammo that some dummy has put through the wash ( use double rinse cycle also). The ammo was reduced to " range" ammo, but never have had a failure.

You are over thinking it... but most of us do! The reality is that a full size .40 with today's ammo will do the intended job if you hit the target.

I give ZERO thought to overpenetration. Outside a war zone, I have not heard or read of anyone getting shot by a pass through on another, even in the crazy leo shoot outs. But hear regularly of bystanders catching a stray round that missed the intended target. It goes back to post BHill's post (which is what I was initially going to quote about hit stats)- if you will train and worry about your own preparation and shot placement than a pass through round will be of little concern.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php ... fense-Ammo

We'll worth the click.

Ammunition forum... Lots of information on other calibers, etc.
https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition

Grundy1133 wrote:

cmgee67 wrote:I really like the Hornady XTP 124gr + P in full size and the regular 115 in my sub compacts. The xtp performs very well is very accurate and I whole heartled trust it along with a lot of others I know. The reason I shoot the hotter load in the full size is well because of the full size gun. The weight and size of the gun allow me to use a hotter load. I could carry the same load in my sub compacts but the 115 gr are less snappy and allow me quicker follow up shots and helps me to stay more accurate. When asking about SD ammo it is a can of worms. Almost any
modern HP ammo will do the trick. I think people get so worried that they don’t have the magical bullet. Honeslty I pray the only time I ever have to crank off my HP defensive ammo is when I’m rotating the old out to new fresh stuff. Stay safe and carry on, cheers

one thing that really drew me to hornady critical duty is that they're waterproofed. the primers are coated with waterproof chemicala nd the casing is crimped to the slug so you dont have to worry about old ammo getting wet from sweating and humid temps (gotta love texas weather ). im not sure if other ammo is waterproof or not but between that and almost all my friends saying to use hornady, i think ill go with the hornady critical duty for my full size M&P 40

I carry the +P 135 grain 9mm Critical Duty in my Glock 26, 19, and 17 pistols; but in my G43 I carry Corbon’s +P 115 grain DPX solid copper hollowpoints. My reasoning is that the G43 only has a 3.39” barrel - not enough bore to develop serious velocity with a heavier bullet. The Corbon load produces 1250 fps and 399 ft/lbs in a 4” barrel. I haven’t chronographed it in my G43, but I think that 1175-1200 fps and 325-350 ft/lbs is a reasonable expectation for a barrel that is .6” shorter than the test barrel. In the video below, the tester shoots this load from both a G17 and a G26 through denim layers into ballistic gelatin. It performs virtually identically in either gun - penetration being 13” and 12.5” respectively, with both bullets expanding beautifully. In the G26, the bullet expanded to .86”, and in the G17 it was .88” ...... so the ammo performed consistently between the two guns. The G26’s barrel being 3.42”, or only 0.03” longer than a G43 barrel, it is reasonable to assume that the load will perform about the same in the G43 as in the G26.
https://youtu.be/ZaEoF31mr58

I rarely carry a .45 anymore, but when I do, I carry both my XDS45 and my XDM45 Compact 3.8” with Hornady 185 grain Critical Defense, which generates 1000 fps and 411 ft/lbs from a 3” barrel. The XDS’s barrel is 3.3”, so I would expect at least that performance if not a little more from the XDS, and better performance yet from the XDM - especially now that I have added a threaded barrel to the XDM which adds another 1/2” of barrel. In my 5” 1911, I carry 230 grain HST.

lots of good info here! thanks for all the feedback!