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Karma?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:54 pm
by Bruin98
And if you take it down like Katy Ice House seems to do as their work around, you shouldn't be allowed to put it back up when this is over. Pick your side and stay there.
https://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/new ... e3bd01daec
Re: Karma?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:42 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
I am thinking that this is kind of ridiculous. If the place sells food and offers a menu they should be allowed to open regardless of 51% status. But then again I believe it is time to stop telling places they can or cannot open. This is suppose to be a country with the freedom to choose.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:47 pm
by carlson1
03Lightningrocks wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:42 pm
I believe it is time to stop telling places they can or cannot open. This is suppose to be a country with the freedom to choose.
[/quote
Re: Karma?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:56 pm
by flechero
regardless of one's feeling on this situation- It shouldn't matter what they are selling... if there can be limited openings with spacing & distancing requirements, who cares if people shop, eat or drink? Outside of hospitality, and city/state services what did close? Not much around here. Even the local brewery started canning and opened a drive through service.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:01 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
flechero wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:56 pm
regardless of one's feeling on this situation- It shouldn't matter what they are selling... if there can be limited openings with spacing & distancing requirements, who cares if people shop, eat or drink? Outside of hospitality, and city/state services what did close? Not much around here. Even the local brewery started canning and opened a drive through service.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 6:32 am
by threoh8
"The owner of the Katy Trail Ice House hung up when asked for comment. He did say he changed his permit to show the business sells more food than alcohol.
TABC has no record of that change. "
I am concerned about the ability to simply change the permit when it suits the permit holder. "51%" implies that actual sales numbers are involved. Is there an audit system?
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:09 am
by flechero
threoh8 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:32 am
I am concerned about the ability to simply change the permit when it suits the permit holder.
To your permit concern- I shared it on initial read of the article. But my bigger concern is a business that may [or may not] be on the brink of bankruptcy that serves food (aka restaurant) and because they USED TO DO a great bar business along with that, is now being penalized when all other restaurants are allowed to open. The reality is that they are also a restaurant regardless of what tabc taxes and permits they are subject to. Everything is adjusting or being administratively adjusted on the fly, why no solution for this segment of our communities?
The broader problem is that the orders being issued are based largely on someone's perception of business definitions and classifications, not a general business's ability to adhere to distancing and public safety. One thing is for sure- we've been amazed at the quick adaptation of businesses in the last 90 days to change on the fly... if it's really a public safety thing set up concentration & distancing rules and let all who can follow them be open.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 10:09 am
by Jusme
threoh8 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:32 am
"The owner of the Katy Trail Ice House hung up when asked for comment. He did say he changed his permit to show the business sells more food than alcohol.
TABC has no record of that change. "
I am concerned about the ability to simply change the permit when it suits the permit holder. "51%" implies that actual sales numbers are involved. Is there an audit system?
He cannot “ change” his permit, this is done by the TABC. I’m sure he was just trying to avoid scrutiny by the reporter.
The whole issue regarding who can , and cannot open, is ridiculous. Each individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety. If they want to go to a bar and drink, and take the chance of getting sick, it is on them.
Time to tell government to quit being everyone’s nanny. JMHO
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 10:29 am
by Grayling813
Jusme wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 10:09 am
Time to tell government to quit being everyone’s nanny. JMHO
This is a critical time in our country's history, either people will rise up and demand their liberty and freedom..or we will become another government controlled police state.
As much as I hate to say it...I think the great majority of US citizens (notice I didn't say "Americans") are willing to let the country permanently change into what the controllers desire.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:27 pm
by carlson1
Grayling813 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 10:29 am
Jusme wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 10:09 am
Time to tell government to quit being everyone’s nanny. JMHO
This is a critical time in our country's history, either people will rise up and demand their liberty and freedom..or we will become another government controlled police state.
As much as I hate to say it...I think the great majority of US citizens (notice I didn't say "Americans") are willing to let the country permanently change into what the controllers desire.
“Give me liberty or give me death” is no longer a rallying cry.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:43 pm
by PUCKER
Agree that this whole thing is beyond RIDICULOUS! So, I've been to the Katy Trail Icehouse Outpost (the one in Plano, not the Dallas one)...is it a bar? I dunno...felt like a restaurant with a bar to me...however...let's say the Dallas location has been open for the past month or so...odds are really high that they have been selling food to go, sure, probably with some alcohol now too....have food sales exceeded alcohol sales? Hmmmmmm.....
So, on the flip side - right here in my own beloved Grapevine...my favorite watering hole - and my favorite home-town cigar smoking location, other than my patio....it looks like a bar, it smells like a bar, etc..but it's NOT a bar...it's a restaurant...so, they are open today...legally...it really makes no sense...bar / restaurant - hmmmmm....seriously....what difference does it make? Notwithstanding TABC regs....BTW - bars are a no-no in Grapevine...that's why a lot of "looks like a bar, smells like a bar" restaurants have catering, etc...so their books show that they have more food revenue than alky revenue...
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:00 pm
by srothstein
As far as I know, the only way to change the permit is to submit an application to TABC for a new one. The application is where TABC gets the information on percentage of income from alcohol, food, or other. A manager cannot just up and change the permit on a whim like the article says he did. If TABC gave him the permit marked that he needed the 51% sign, it is required until he rnews the permit and they make a different determination on it.
And just to clarify one other point, there are no "bars" in Texas. We do not have that as a legal term. We have licensed premises for on-premise consumption. And I know this is splitting hairs, but in the terms of legal talk, it is necessary. The Governor's order did not forbid bars from opening. It forbade places required to post the 51% sign from opening. As we have discussed before in weird circumstances, this could mean that a bowling alley or movie theater cannot open because of how they structured their license for alcohol. IIRC, one of the zoos is also covered by that but I could be remembering wrong.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:28 pm
by PriestTheRunner
Maybe we should just get government out of private business completely...?
As in remove TABC, remove 51% laws, un-license everything. Imagine if people were actually allowed liberty to make / sell / do whatever someone will pay them to do? What a thought.
Re: Karma?
Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:46 pm
by PUCKER
PriestTheRunner wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 2:28 pm
Maybe we should just get government out of private business completely...?
As in remove TABC, remove 51% laws, un-license everything. Imagine if people were actually allowed liberty to make / sell / do whatever someone will pay them to do? What a thought.
I like that thought...Laissez-faire.