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https://lawofselfdefense.com/after-acti ... y-27-2020/Today’s “After Action Analysis” Show focuses on the in-custody death of George Floyd in Minneapolis. For future reference, you can link anyone you like, LOSD Member or not, to this “After Action Analysis” Show by just using the URL: lawofselfdefense.com/floyd
Him cowering in the corner of his cell, battered, bruised and abused, wearing makeup and tiny little pig tales in his hair would be a nice ending.parabelum wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:31 pm Those cops started by the book and then ended like fascists. Man was pleading to just let him breathe and the cop with his knee on the neck was literally suffocating him slowly.
There’s a point when the man is no longer talking or moving. That’s because he is deceased, and you can’t tell me that the officer did not notice that his body got limp. Bystanders are pleading for them to just check his pulse, but nope, he maintains his knee on the neck. What a brave bunch.
Hope that the one with his knee on this mans neck rots in prison.
I do not know about this specific case and I will not comment on whether the officers are right or wrong. I do know that I have been attacked by people who are cuffed and restrained. I remember one case where I arrived at a call for a bar fight and found a subject cuffed and laying face down on the ground with two security guards restraining him. He tried to fight us when we were switching out the cuffs. After I got him recuffed and put in a patrol car, he kicked the back door, bending the door frame and breaking the window and his ankle. When we got him to the hospital, he tried to attack me when he was sitting in a wheelchair. He tried to attack the ward tech when he was on the gurney on the way to be x-rayed.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over.
Sorry for being a bit harsh now, but prudently dealing with people who may be violent towards you is what you signed up for when you took your oath. Keyword is “prudently”. We all can react and cross the line. You’re there to ensure that the line isn’t crossed.srothstein wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 pmI do not know about this specific case and I will not comment on whether the officers are right or wrong. I do know that I have been attacked by people who are cuffed and restrained. I remember one case where I arrived at a call for a bar fight and found a subject cuffed and laying face down on the ground with two security guards restraining him. He tried to fight us when we were switching out the cuffs. After I got him recuffed and put in a patrol car, he kicked the back door, bending the door frame and breaking the window and his ankle. When we got him to the hospital, he tried to attack me when he was sitting in a wheelchair. He tried to attack the ward tech when he was on the gurney on the way to be x-rayed.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over.
You cannot make a flat statement that the fight is over at any certain point. Some will even pretend to stop resisting and will attack when you relax for a moment. Some officers paid with their lives for relaxing too early after someone was cuffed.
This is why I always say to wait until the investigation is completed before rushing to judgment. The officers may very well be right. They may very well be wrong. We can only truly tell after an investigation is conducted and completed.
And I will point out that responding to political pressure and firing them or charging them before an investigation is complete has never worked out well for the agency. It makes it easy for the officer's to get their jobs back because the agency cannot prove the case. This is really bad when there are bad officers the agency is trying to get rid of.
No. As others have stated, just because someone is cuffed & on the ground it does not mean they are finished fighting.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over. I have watched many officer take downs and have never seen a cop doing anything close to what I saw that cop do. That cop appeared to be angry about something. It was almost as if he was determined not to let anyone tell him to let up.
I would recommend not commenting if you do not know the details or have not at least watched the video. What do we say when we assume things?srothstein wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 pmI do not know about this specific case and I will not comment on whether the officers are right or wrong. I do know that I have been attacked by people who are cuffed and restrained. I remember one case where I arrived at a call for a bar fight and found a subject cuffed and laying face down on the ground with two security guards restraining him. He tried to fight us when we were switching out the cuffs. After I got him recuffed and put in a patrol car, he kicked the back door, bending the door frame and breaking the window and his ankle. When we got him to the hospital, he tried to attack me when he was sitting in a wheelchair. He tried to attack the ward tech when he was on the gurney on the way to be x-rayed.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over.
You cannot make a flat statement that the fight is over at any certain point. Some will even pretend to stop resisting and will attack when you relax for a moment. Some officers paid with their lives for relaxing too early after someone was cuffed.
This is why I always say to wait until the investigation is completed before rushing to judgment. The officers may very well be right. They may very well be wrong. We can only truly tell after an investigation is conducted and completed.
And I will point out that responding to political pressure and firing them or charging them before an investigation is complete has never worked out well for the agency. It makes it easy for the officer's to get their jobs back because the agency cannot prove the case. This is really bad when there are bad officers the agency is trying to get rid of.
Ridiculous justification. That cop was simply wrong! Shame on anyone that tries to justify this level of police brutality.AdioSS wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:57 pmNo. As others have stated, just because someone is cuffed & on the ground it does not mean they are finished fighting.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over. I have watched many officer take downs and have never seen a cop doing anything close to what I saw that cop do. That cop appeared to be angry about something. It was almost as if he was determined not to let anyone tell him to let up.
By this point in time, all law enforcement training must include limitations on how long a cuffed person should be held down. When I was in corrections we had training on things like this, & I’ve been out of that for over a year.
I do get that the officer was also having to deal with a growing crowd that was continuing to Escalate in anger while they are videoing his actions. The crowd was making it increasingly difficult to focus on the restrained man in his custody.
seph wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 5:01 pmI would recommend not commenting if you do not know the details or have not at least watched the video. What do we say when we assume things?srothstein wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 pmI do not know about this specific case and I will not comment on whether the officers are right or wrong. I do know that I have been attacked by people who are cuffed and restrained. I remember one case where I arrived at a call for a bar fight and found a subject cuffed and laying face down on the ground with two security guards restraining him. He tried to fight us when we were switching out the cuffs. After I got him recuffed and put in a patrol car, he kicked the back door, bending the door frame and breaking the window and his ankle. When we got him to the hospital, he tried to attack me when he was sitting in a wheelchair. He tried to attack the ward tech when he was on the gurney on the way to be x-rayed.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over.
You cannot make a flat statement that the fight is over at any certain point. Some will even pretend to stop resisting and will attack when you relax for a moment. Some officers paid with their lives for relaxing too early after someone was cuffed.
This is why I always say to wait until the investigation is completed before rushing to judgment. The officers may very well be right. They may very well be wrong. We can only truly tell after an investigation is conducted and completed.
And I will point out that responding to political pressure and firing them or charging them before an investigation is complete has never worked out well for the agency. It makes it easy for the officer's to get their jobs back because the agency cannot prove the case. This is really bad when there are bad officers the agency is trying to get rid of.
Choking a suspect to death is a complete different issue than to continue to forcefully hold a suspect down.
If those officers where civilians, they would have immediately been charged with murder
Placing ones knee on the neck and applying your body weight until the man is dead is a VERY LONG reach from holding a suspect down. In cases I have watched on video, TV ect. the cops always have the knee on the center of the back to hold the suspect down.Thats what the other “cops” are there for. No excuse.AdioSS wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:57 pmNo. As others have stated, just because someone is cuffed & on the ground it does not mean they are finished fighting.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over. I have watched many officer take downs and have never seen a cop doing anything close to what I saw that cop do. That cop appeared to be angry about something. It was almost as if he was determined not to let anyone tell him to let up.
By this point in time, all law enforcement training must include limitations on how long a cuffed person should be held down. When I was in corrections we had training on things like this, & I’ve been out of that for over a year.
I do get that the officer was also having to deal with a growing crowd that was continuing to Escalate in anger while they are videoing his actions. The crowd was making it increasingly difficult to focus on the restrained man in his custody.
Well said Steve. I was amazed the LEOs were fired instead of being placed some admin duty before the investigation was completed. Everyone including the news media loves to propagate the worst case scenario.srothstein wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:15 pmI do not know about this specific case and I will not comment on whether the officers are right or wrong. I do know that I have been attacked by people who are cuffed and restrained. I remember one case where I arrived at a call for a bar fight and found a subject cuffed and laying face down on the ground with two security guards restraining him. He tried to fight us when we were switching out the cuffs. After I got him recuffed and put in a patrol car, he kicked the back door, bending the door frame and breaking the window and his ankle. When we got him to the hospital, he tried to attack me when he was sitting in a wheelchair. He tried to attack the ward tech when he was on the gurney on the way to be x-rayed.03Lightningrocks wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm He very well may have resisted arrest. But once he was cuffed and lying face down, resistance is over.
You cannot make a flat statement that the fight is over at any certain point. Some will even pretend to stop resisting and will attack when you relax for a moment. Some officers paid with their lives for relaxing too early after someone was cuffed.
This is why I always say to wait until the investigation is completed before rushing to judgment. The officers may very well be right. They may very well be wrong. We can only truly tell after an investigation is conducted and completed. ......snip....