TexasCHLforum.com

jmra wrote:

rtschl wrote:Jimmy Meeks, a Hurst Police Officer and Pastor, started SheepDog Seminars for churches: http://www.sheepdogseminarsforchurches.com/home.html His purpose is to let church leaders know that there is a real danger out there and to make them realize there is a need to be prepared.

Carl Chinn speaks at the SheepDog seminars was the facility manager at Focus on the Family when the hostage taking and shooting incident in 1996 and on his church's security team involved in responding to a shooting in 2007. His website is:http://www.carlchinn.com/ I really recommend reading his book: "Evil Invades Sanctuary".

Those two sites are great places to start to get churches and other faith based organizations aware of the danger out there.

Ron

From what I can tell from attending one of Jimmy Meeks seminars, he is not a supporter of CHLs responding to an active shooter in a church. He pushes unarmed eyes and ears team members acting as cannon fodder until paid security (which he will gladly provide you with for the right price) or local LEO responds. He even shows a bunch of pics of unarmed "Sheepdogs" who died (unnecessarily as far as I'm concerned) defending the church against active shooters. It took almost a year for us to rebuild our eyes and ears team after his "presentation" at our church.

Interesting JRMA. I was thinking about getting them to come to our church to do a seminar for us and other local churches. Your comments cause me to rethink that idea.

Here's a better idea; recommend to your pastor the church sponsor a chl license class and encourage staff and members attend.

That's what will make the church safer if that is his goal.

elpjt wrote:Thanks for the responses. I am looking for stats or numbers that show the benefits on CHL's in the congregation.

That may be hard to find since there is no way of knowing for sure how many people are carrying. Show him the stats of how much less likely a CHL is to commit a crime compared to the general population and law enforcement officers. That should convince him.

I'll have to do a search or Keith or Charles may have that link handy.

Here is one article by Charles. https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... ry-conduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

elpjt wrote:As a response to the recent shootings in CA and a scare from a homeless person our pastor today brought up an idea about posting the church for no weapons. My wife responded she should first speak to me about it. I am looking for ideas here to help in the conversation we will have.

The pastor needs to realize the signs will not stop a bad guy from carrying a gun and doing harm. All he would be doing is subjecting the flock he is charged with shepherding to unnecessary danger without the tools to defend themselves. If he thinks rendering his congregation almost helpless is the right thing, I would have to question his judgement on other issues.

Be sure to let him know it is already against the law to shoot someone without justification. What good is a sign going to do?

At some point, common sense needs to come into play. Show him how many of the shootings have happened in "gun free" locations.

Hopefully, he will reconsider and come to his senses. If not, you may have a decision to make.

MeMelYup wrote:The list posted above is part of the requirements of any retail store manager/assistant manager and a good deal of sales employees. They all are interested in these items as they effect the bottom line. So, why would a church need licensed security for this?

To protect and limit security competition. Follow the money. It's pretty frustrating I have to have a license to do what I do. The continuing education near worthless and is just an ongoing additional tax and money grab.

carlson1 wrote:

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

I am the Pastor and I do not see me having to have a license to Pastor my church. It is not going to happen so I guess I am a criminal.

My kind of pastor right there.

jiannichan wrote:

jbarn wrote:
Regardless of what they are called, if their role consist of any of the following licensing is required;

(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or
trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity
on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the
public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for
the time directly and specifically required to ensure the
protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including
through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in
this section.

So, that would mean the pastor, deacon, or anyone on the church staff/board would need to be licensed?

Interesting you mention that. Some of those could even apply to a mere citizen that is a member or congregant as some of those are roles of being a citizen.

The security guard laws are primarily to limit competition and protect income. Those in the industry will say it is to protect society from unqualified people acting as guards but I disagree.

My pastor and a few select staff and deacons know I carry. They know not to talk to me about helping as part of the security team. They also know I'll be one of the first to respond if as situation arises in my proximity.

But the answer to the op is that it is OK to carry as long as you haven't received effective notice.

goose wrote:

Jason K wrote: You can dance if you want to......

Hard Shell Baptists please disregard the above heracy. :-)

We don't dance. May move to music but don't dance.

Yes