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The Annoyed Man wrote:

speedsix wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

GlennGAH wrote:The one thing that I learned during this encounter is that our Law Enforcement Brothers and Sisters understand that we are on their side and they see us as an asset. I have seen the horrible Dash Cam videos of incidents where LEO's are attacked while pullling someone over. I drive frequently for travel and always keep a sharp lookout for LEOS's who have pulled someone over. When I drive past, I try to observe what is taking place. I am committed to covering their backs if there is ever an incident and I am close enough to assist.

God Bless & Protect our Law Enforcement Officers!

A noble sentiment, and one that may well get you shot by the officer who is in trouble, or shot by his backup brother officers who are on their way to the scene. If I were you, I would work out WELL in advance exactly how you would insert yourself into such a situation without alarming the cop and bringing bad juju down on your own head despite your best intentions.

Look, I'm not knocking how you feel about it, and I think that most of us here have it at least in our hearts to want to be helpful in such a situation if we could do so without making things worse either for the cop or for ourselves, but your CHL is not a batman license. You are probably far more useful if you take a position behind cover (not concealment) and help with communications by calling 911 and providing them with an independent witness as to what is happening, and to whom. Only involve yourself as a shooter, or as a physical aggressor if you have no other alternative to save your own life, or if the officer in question ASKS for your help, or he's down and out of the fight and about to be killed. I'm betting that most of them won't ask, because it is not in their nature to drag citizens into danger, and doing so is neither in their job descriptions nor in their department policies.

Just my 2¢.

...I personally know two officers who are alive today because a citizen made the decision to step up with a gun and stop a BG:one BG who had disarmed the officer and had his own gun to his head cocked and about to shoot him; one, a lady who maced a carney who had a gun to the officer's head(he'd left his gun in the car... sometimes it goes real well...there's a lot to be considered quickly to make the right decision...don't let anyone belittle your willingness to help, but don't jump in without knowing A LOT about what's really going on and what's wise IN THAT SITUATION...

...it is in state law that a LEO can direct a citizen to become involved...more often, the officer isn't able to ask...he's too busy trying to stay alive...I wouldn't ask him to wait for his backup...anymore than I'd wait for him to get there if I needed help...

That is exactly the point I was trying to make, and which is why I called it a noble sentiment. I wasn't belittling it. I guess that if an officer directed me to get physically involved, I'd do it to the extent that I am physically able to (which is limited), and if I saw a bad guy take down a cop and get his gun and make like he was going to execute the cop, I'd probably fire on him......from cover. But my point is that you had BETTER know exactly what is going on, what the officer's expectations of you are, and whether or not his fellow officers are aware that you are stepping in to help, so that you don't get shot in a case of mistaken identity. In fact, without confirmation from another source or personally witnessing the events leading up to that moment, you don't know if the guy standing over the "cop" is a plain clothed officer detaining a person impersonating a police officer with a stolen cop car. So, it's not that I don't want to be helpful to the police. I'm just saying that you have to be really circumspect about these things because the truth of what is happening may be difficult to ascertain. And maybe not, too. I'm just sayin'..... But that is why I counseled that one should work out well in advance what they might do in situation x, y, or z. Game it out.....just the same way we game out what we might do in any other developing tactical situation, then go practice it if there is a facility at which to do so (IDPA or something like that).....just like we have to make the decision in advance of deciding to carry a gun whether we are willing to use it in the first place if it comes down to that. There's no dishonor in deciding not to carry a gun, but if you decide to do it, you had better know what it is you think you're doing, and why, and not take on either foolish risks, or more responsibility than you can handle. That's really all I'm saying.