TexasCHLforum.com

AndyC wrote:

ralewis wrote:

AndyC wrote:

ralewis wrote:My CHL instructor (PD from Horseshoe Bay TX) about 15 years ago conveyed this notion of drawing your firearm very simply and concisely "if its bad enough to pull the gun, it's bad enough to pull the trigger."

Disagree - it depends. That could all too-easily lead to a misunderstanding by the newbie who hears "If you pull it, you have to use it"; I've (justifiably) held a number of people at gun-point without pulling the trigger (although I was fully prepared to if it was required).

ralewis wrote:He strongly advised against a CHL'er drawing your gun as a de-escalation tool for the reasons you say in your post.

Disagree again - to a minor extent. The use of force is a continuum - drawing and pointing a firearm is one more step in the continuum to hopefully avoid *having* to shoot. That said, I agree that a firearm should not be drawn unless one is fully prepared to - legally and rightly - pull the trigger if necessary. What he's talking about, I believe, is "Don't use it as a threat in situations when you wouldn't be justified in shooting someone".

Don't draw it solely as a threat-display or bluff - you draw it if you fully expect that you'd be justified in using it.

On the contrary... his point was if the situation meets the need for deadly force, then pull your gun.

While I agree with your new point, you're now moving the goalposts - that's not what he said nor what I'm pointing out.

He said: "if its bad enough to pull the gun, it's bad enough to pull the trigger." (I'm disagreeing with the implication that pulling the trigger should always result from drawing the gun).

Now you're saying "if the situation meets the need for deadly force, then pull your gun" (no argument there but that doesn't cover my concerns re the point to which I *was* responding)

I'm not trying to be nit-picky but those are 2 very different things.

ralewis wrote:Absent that, use other de-escalation techniques. Don't use the gun as a de-escalation tool. Introducing a gun when not absolutely needed introduces more variables (my -- any my first CHL instructors - opinion).

No disagreement there either.

AndyC wrote:

ralewis wrote:My CHL instructor (PD from Horseshoe Bay TX) about 15 years ago conveyed this notion of drawing your firearm very simply and concisely "if its bad enough to pull the gun, it's bad enough to pull the trigger."

Disagree - it depends. That could all too-easily lead to a misunderstanding by the newbie who hears "If you pull it, you have to use it"; I've (justifiably) held a number of people at gun-point without pulling the trigger (although I was fully prepared to if it was required).

ralewis wrote:He strongly advised against a CHL'er drawing your gun as a de-escalation tool for the reasons you say in your post.

Disagree again - to a minor extent. The use of force is a continuum - drawing and pointing a firearm is one more step in the continuum to hopefully avoid *having* to shoot. That said, I agree that a firearm should not be drawn unless one is fully prepared to - legally and rightly - pull the trigger if necessary. What he's talking about, I believe, is "Don't use it as a threat in situations when you wouldn't be justified in shooting someone".

Don't draw it solely as a threat-display or bluff - you draw it if you fully expect that you'd be justified in using it.

Steven6702 wrote:I've been doing a lot of thinking about carrying regularly and have some questions that keep coming up for me that I'd appreciate any insight into.

The main one is about what would happen if I had to brandish a gun in various circumstances. My understanding in Texas is that one can lawfully display a firearm whenever the use of force would otherwise be authorized; in other words, that brandishing a firearm is simply a use of force until you pull the trigger, at which point it becomes deadly force. So if someone is harassing me or my family and starts to get physical, for example, I could display or draw a gun to create apprehension against that further illegal use of force against me, right?

Where it gets sticky for me is this: if someone is using some non-deadly force against me, and I display or draw a gun to create that apprehension, I still can't really do anything with the gun if that behavior continues, right? e.g. someone is following me and trying to beat me up; probably not trying to kill me, but I don't want to get beaten up either, especially when I'm carrying and could be at risk for having this person disarm me and potentially use my gun. So let's say I draw a gun on this person who keeps following me around and throwing punches, and tell them to back off. If they then continue in an effort to throw more punches, the brandishing of the gun is for naught, right?

Seems like it would kind of defeat the point of drawing a firearm unless you are absolutely ready and willing to use it - with seems consistent with common sense - but I just want to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly.