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by pushpullpete
Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:49 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Improper signs and results
Replies: 91
Views: 13290

Re: Improper signs and results

mloamiller wrote:
pushpullpete wrote: however, you broke the 'spirit' of the law when you saw & disregarded the 'illegal' sign and that kind of action can shine an unfavorable light on the whole 'responsible gun owner' thing that most of us are trying to put forward.
We'll have to disagree on that. The law is very clear on what a business owner is required to do. If they haven't put enough effort into finding out what that requirement is and then implementing it correctly, that's on them.

I am being responsible in that I have put in the effort to know what the law states.

Yes, we will have to. That was why I called it the 'SPIRIT' of the law & not the law itself.
I am NOT calling you or anyone else on this forum stupid, on the contrary I believe there are some very smart people here. I've spent too
many years banging my head up against stupid people :banghead: that refuse to listen to people who are more knowledgeable than they are.
It took me a few (maybe quite a few) decades but I have finally learned what my father meant when he used to tell me to work smarter, not
just harder. Grab them by the throat and push their face in it (like I've done most of my life), yes it will get your point across but, the end
result (after they call the police) will NOT be what you want or expect.
There is a lot of money on both sides of this argument & finesse is needed for our side much more than a heavy hand.
by pushpullpete
Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:00 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Improper signs and results
Replies: 91
Views: 13290

Re: Improper signs and results

mloamiller wrote:
JALLEN wrote:Here is a scenario:

You and a small group of friends meet at a restaurant for dinner. On the way in, you notice a clearly invalid 30.06 sign near the door. Your pistol is concealed, so no worries.

During dinner, you are asked to pass the catsup and, half standing, reach across the large table to hand it to another. A few minutes later, the hostess stops by and tells you that your pistol was noticed while you were stretched out across the table, that weapons are not allowed in the restaurant, and you must either take it to your car, and would then be welcome to return, or leave if not.

1. Do you take the pistol out to the car and return, weaponless? Or

2. Point out that the sign out front is non compliant, therefore meaningless, and return to your chicken fried steak? Or

3. Leave promptly and do not return, leaving the bill unpaid? The others finish their meal and pay their portion. Or

4. The entire party leaves right then, without paying?
At the point the hostess tells me weapons are not allowed, the sign is no longer an issue; I've been given verbal notice so I have to leave. However, given that the sign was invalid, and that is why I came in with my pistol in the first place, my initial response would be to ask the hostess how she would like to handle the bill for the dinner. Since I'm not being allowed to remain and finish it, I'm certainly not paying for it, and if I leave, we're all leaving. So it's her choice. I will absolutely leave right then, not paying for a meal I'm not being allowed to finish, or I will finish my meal, with my firearm in it's holster, pay the check and leave, never to return. I'll abide by whichever route she or the management decide to take. If the hostess or management start to argue the issue, I'll also point out why their sign is invalid,why I was within my rights to ignore it, and what they should do to prevent issues such as this in the future.

In short, I would be very cooperative, letting them know that if they insist that I leave before I finish my meal, I will absolutely do that, but I won't pay for a meal they won't let me finish. This changes the discussion from being about guns to being about their allowing me to either finish (and pay for) the meal, or leave immediately; they are in the driver's seat and I'm being cooperative. If they continue to insist I leave immediately and pay the check, I might go ahead and do that, or I might just walk out without paying. It would depend entirely on how heated things got. One thing I would not do in that situation is stay.
I had not put that much thought into it but you propose a valid point that puts it back on the business. Nice, however, you broke the 'spirit'
of the law when you saw & disregarded the 'illegal' sign and that kind of action can shine an unfavorable light on the whole
'responsible gun owner' thing that most of us are trying to put forward.

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