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pbandjelly wrote:OH FOR THE LOVE OF PETE.

a flippin' back pack. really?

I carry a back pack everywhere I go. you see, scrubs don't really have that many pockets, and the way my particular job works, I may be at the OutPatient center, or the main hospital, or both, or neither.
so, it's MY mobile locker.

or students. shewt, I wouldn't have wanted to leave my laptop in the car, what with a weirdo eye-ballin' me. what with his daughter going to an R-rated movie. beside the point... anyway

now, if the guy gets up and LEAVES the backpack. be concerned.
otherwise, really? a back pack?

saw a guy in a coat, and had to plug'em. no tellin' what was under that coat.... it was only 60degrees....

sometimes, we go too far. from observant, to apparently ruined your movie experience.

Pbandjelly,

I don't carry my daughter to R-rated movies. Sometimes we assume things that just isn't so.

I'll recap my original question and concern:

When does a person become paranoid instead of just concerned with his or her safety and the safety of his family? Looking at many posts before I answered you, I see a few folks think I'm talking about personal freedom.

Instead, I am talking about personal safety situation and I am asking others for advice. Freedom is another subject, entirely separate from personal safety concern and being ready for anything that might happen (risk management).

Hoppes

longtooth wrote:Respectfully disagree sir.
Give up one freedom because it is necessary & a couple of yrs later there is another one to give up because it is necessary too. If backpacs are outlawed them they will Carry it in a briefcase, (hey that has already been thought of), then in an Igglo lunch bucket....
I'll keep mine.
We will deal w/ the criminals & terrorists.

I am very proud of my freedom too. But I am going to be proactive in noticing things like a back pack that seems out of place to me. I would be less likely to be more cautious (condition yellow) if the person walked off the street with a back pack without me seeing him get out of a car, then I would if someone got out of an old beat up car, just a few feet from the entrance of the theatre, clutching his back pack tightly, and clutching it the whole movie.

It comes down to the fact that I was there and I saw what was going on. Is it paranoid or common sense to wonder what was going on with that back pack knowing what I do today about all of the attacks that have happened in many parts of the world and by all different races? How does this situation relate to a personal safety situation? When is a person considered paranoid versus just keeping a watchful eye on his or her safety? Is a teenager smoking on a street corner across the street from you a threat to you or your safety? Do you just stumble on to your parking place, or around the corner without being cognizant of what is around that corner? Could that teenager be a spotter for the two gang bangers around the corner waiting on you? What I am saying is be alert. The people who die in an attack are those that didn't observe. They weren't ready for any attack. I'm saying I think we need to be ready for attacks even if they haven't started. I'm not talking about civil freedoms.

I don't think I would be concerned with P&BJelly's toting a back pack all over a big hospital campus because it would be in place to me. But I just don't agree with a back pack in a dark theatre.

We've lost many freedoms not because we haven't used them, but because we've turned our eyes and actions away from a government that does not have our interest at heart. I believe we can do more to protect our freedoms ourselves by being more watchful and proactive. Don't take things for granted. Be proactive. Watch what the government does. Be responsible for knowing what is going on around you. Question whether something you see or know is good or bad. I have seen videos lately that shows terrorists training to bring back packs into America and blow them up, along with our families and Americans. I am not afraid. I am watchful of this kind of attack to protect my family.

So back to my original question, When does a person call it paranoid instead of just being cautious as it related to personal defense of your safety and that of your family members? That was my original intended question.

Hoppes

Liberty wrote:

Huff9337 wrote:I believe that was a backpack that blew up at the Alanta olimpics (sp).

You may be right. 10 years ago one person in this vast country of ours used a backpack bomb and killed 3 people. The popcorn surely is deadlier than packpacks.

The goal of terrorist is to cause terror or fear. When we live in fear we let them win. I suppose there needs to be common sense applied, and that a line needs to be drawn somewhere, between safety and freedom. Freedom surely is worth some reduction of safety

Part of the reason that I am paranoid to an extent are my past life experiences. I've had 9MM Uzis and other machine guns pointed at my nose while working in the Middle East. When a person is pointing that gun at you and you two can't communicate, it makes things much worse. I am sure you can imagine what is going on in my head as I look at that little round hole on the business end of those fully automatic guns. I can't speak that language and the person pointing at me was about fifteen years old. Mental stability in a fifteen year old? Probably not that great.

So I look around at people to see what might happen. I am not always condition white, even at home with my doors locked, because I live in a rural area. Crime could come knocking day or night. You are right, when we live in fear we are in reaction mode. That is not a good thing most of the time. You can never minimalize reaction, but you can capitalize on mental training and action (proactive) and overcome the reaction in many instances. If we decide to let our government protect us, you can bet there will be a disaster. I am an American, but I don't think the government has our interest at heart anymore because I can see how many times it has failed us, and how many time Americans have told the government in masses that something is wrong and the government just brushes our warning off and does something totally idiotic.

That's why that back pack scared me. That's why I alerted the theatre staff some guy was cuddling a back pack in the theatre.

Hoppes

LedJedi wrote:It has also broken down the "guns are scary and evil" walls that have been built up over the years of watching TV, movies, and Congressional hearings.

Yes, guns are scary and evil to many people. But guns are not bad, only dangerous. That is where we come in to educate those that are scared, right?

Venus Pax wrote:

Liberty wrote:The transfat laced popcorn in the movietheater kills more Americans than exploding backpacks.

True. Sad, but true.

Yes, I stopped eating pop corn years ago.

Hoppes

Liberty wrote:

jbenat wrote: Because you were worried about being paranoid you took a big gamble with your life, your daughter's life and the life of everyone it the theater. Before 9/11/01 I would have thought nothing of this but today I would be very suspicious. I think you should have notified theatre management and got out of the area until he was checked out. There is no reason a person going to a movie has to carry a back pack in. It could have been left at home or locked in the car if anything of value was in it that he was so conserned out. It is our duty to protect each other to be on the look out for this type of behaviour. Maybe he was just testing the system this time to see if he could get away with it and he did. Who knows but we should be alert at all times now days.
I don't see why movie management let in in the first place. I know they would at least be very interested to see if he were smuggling in any snacks like candy bars that he didn't pay $3.00 for at the concession stand.

Maybe he had something valuable he didn't want someone to get. I wouldn't let anyone search me, unless it was a police officer, and He had a warrent or I actually had a concealed weapon.
This is America, and we have some rights. If folks don't like my crappy car my backback, fannypacks or whatever, they can leave. But darn it we have certain rights to privacy. and I can't remember when the last time in America someones backpack blew up and killed anyone. The transfat laced popcorn in the movietheater kills more Americans than exploding backpacks.

Liberty,

This is not America anymore. It is not the America I once knew. I am with you, I wish it was. But things have changed. It is a post 9/11 world whether we like it or not. What we can do is change the system, but that will take every American person who values liberty to change it. tha means practicing permanent vigilance and recognizing that citizens must provide our own protection instead of waiting for police to show up or for the goverment to help us. Let's go back to that day - 9/11. On a couple of planes, citizens and others sit in that plane and let terrorists use the plane to blow up more than one building and the Pentagon. the White House ordered additional planes shot down from the sky if they attacked. Where is the help? That would have still killed all aboard the plane, all the innocent people and the terrorists. And to think, our government tells us, leave the protection to them. Don't try to resist. Hmmm... I'd rather resist than have a missile shooting speeding towards me.

The incident of the remaining plane that crashed in a field in Pennsylvania illustrated a different outcome. Those people in that plane acted. I've often heard it said, "Action always beats reaction." To me, those people that went down in that Pennsylvania field still live on today as heros - heros that tasted the blood of true freedom and liberty because they didn't wait on the govermnet to save them. They took citizen action to try and stop the attack instead of waiting on George W. Bush and Company to save them.

Yes, we have some freedoms, but we must rationally defend them when we feel they are threatened. For that reason, I question why anybody needs to carry a back pack into a theatre to watch a movie. Perhaps I am paranoid. I'd rather walk out on two feet than be carried out on six wheels.

The thing that troubles me is that I am torn between the old America where we can't remember a back pack blowing up and today, when it could go off at any time. It could be anybody doing it for a myriad of reasons that we would never understand or accept. Still, we are dealing with minds, which are more deadly than the weapon itself. It is the mind that decides when to set that thing off.

Hoppes

I think you should have notified theatre management and got out of the area until he was checked out. There is no reason a person going to a movie has to carry a back pack in. It could have been left at home or locked in the car if anything of value was in it that he was so conserned out. It is our duty to protect each other to be on the look out for this type of behaviour. Maybe he was just testing the system this time to see if he could get away with it and he did. Who knows but we should be alert at all times now days.

I don't see why movie management let in in the first place. I know they would at least be very interested to see if he were smuggling in any snacks like candy bars that he didn't pay $3.00 for at the concession stand.

I did notify the theatre management and they didn't object to the guy carrying that back pack in the theatre. They didn't confront the guy at all. It was in the afternoon when there are no police officers usually present. At night, there are several police officers and they usually take care of business.

Hoppes

NcongruNt wrote:

LedJedi wrote:hmmm, if it's discernable... now see I would personally interpret that as obvious printing being illegal.

It is only failure to conceal if you did it intentionally. Intent is what is specified in the law, which others have posted above.

To your knowledge, is "Intentionally clearly defined in the statutes or laws?

Just a couple of days ago, I took my daughter to see the latest Die Hard
movie. A guy driving a beat up old station wagon got out of his car about the same time we did. He had to bring a back pack in for some reason and he happened to go to the same movie. I watched this guy like a hawk because he exhibited actions and characteristic movements that led me to believe he had something very valuable or secret in the bck pack.

I was suspicious of him. Although I did not see anything printed, I suppose I am the ordinary Joe and from my past experience, it was on my mind to anticipate that this guy could have had a C4 bomb or firearm in the bag. I was happy to get my daughter and me out of the theatre safely after the movie.

Am I being paranoid because the guy had a back pack? It just seemed strange that he would bring it in unless it was something valuable he didn't want possibly stolen while he was watching the movie or something worse. He was really clutching that pack nervously a few times.

txinvestigator wrote:Occasionlly I "make" people who are carrying. I never say aything unless they are exposed.

People who are used to looking a person over for weapons get pretty good at spottimg the bulge. People who are new to carrying also tend to exhibit "tells", like touching the weapon thru the clothes, adjusting the pants all of the time, etc.

I was wearing a shoulder holster about 2 years ago while working a PPO detail. (I was driving). Our event was at a large hotel for a benefit. An off duty Game Warden who was on the floor above me saw me over a railing, came down and asked me if I was police or private. Since I don't wear a shoulder holster often, I was "telling".

Today, I was driving home from San Antonio. A fellow on a sporty motorcycle drove by me and stopped at the red light in the left turn lane (I was turning right). When I looked over, the guy was "open carrying" in the small of his back. It was a black semi-automatic pistol.

I can't say he was carrying illegal or not. When the light turned green, I turned right and the fellow on the motorcycle turned left. I can't help but wonder whether he was the good guy or a bad guy. For all I know, he could have been a law enforcement officer, a CHL citizen, or a thug.

Some might think we should call the police when we witness such. I didn't because I had no information leading me to believe he was carrying illegally. What do you think and how would you react?

Hoppes