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by couzin
Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:59 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Garner State Park CHL?
Replies: 25
Views: 7543

I am not a lawyer - but...

I will disregard the issue of title 18 sec 930 for the moment because there is considerable debate over it and whether or not someone legally carrying 'could' get in a jam for carrying in/on a federal facility - however - this law is the grandaddy for the prohibition against carrying weapons contrary to agency regulations. Keep reading. While some agencies (US Forest Service) allow the carrying of weapons on most USFS lands (not in park buildings), other agencies just say no. The licensing ('leases') of federal land (COE land in this case) to the state (TX Parks & Wildlife in this case) is done through a legally binding document. The fed retains ownership, retains applicability of all federal laws and regulations, and still owns the resources and how they are managed. The state laws, regs, and policies cannot trump federal law or even regulations. So, even though TPWD now says you can carry a weapon in the TPWD parks, if that park is 'on' federal land (COE managed fee lands), you can be cited by a COE ranger or employee with title 36 citation authority for violation of 36 CFR 327.13(a) Explosives, firearms, other Weapons and Fireworks. The fine is currently set in the Eastern District of TX at $100.00 plus a processing fee of $25.00 if so marked on the ticket. If it is marked as a mandatory appearance, then the federal magistrate will set the fine based on the severity of the incident, the violator's record, and other factors, up to $5000.00 and prison time. A COE ranger has the ability to summon local and/or federal law enforcement if confronted by a potential violator which can certainly up the ante and cause someone even more grief. Now - here is where it gets real sticky - same COE regulation (title 36 CFR 327) has a section 26(a-b) (State and Local Laws) that "except as provided...by federal law or regulation, state and local laws...shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes...(3)...use and or possession of firearms or other weapons;..." Again, I am not a lawyer, but if it is legal for someone to carry in the state, legal to carry in state parks, then this section seems to trump both the earlier section of the regulation as well as title 18. In other words, the federal regulation has just cancelled out itself. Now, the COE office of counsel (lawyers) still maintains that the regulation prohibiting firearms is the current policy and that is what they are going with, but I wonder what would happen if a cited 'violator' took his/her chances in front of a magistrate and pointed out the inconsistencies. I would not want to be the test case - but it really is just silly.
by couzin
Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Garner State Park CHL?
Replies: 25
Views: 7543

However...

Be aware that several TPWD parks and wildlife areas are located on Federally-owned land (the State leases, or has a license to operate, the land and/or facilities from the Federal Government). Parks and wildlife areas like Cooper Dam-Jim Chapman Lake, White Oak Creek Wildlife Area, Atlanta State Park at Lake Wright Patman, Whitney State Park at Lake Whitney, and several others operated by TPWD, are located on US Army Corps of Engineers owned lands and there is a regulation against any firearm except during hunting seasons, and then only in specific areas and specific long guns - no handguns. Just to avoid getting a citation from the Corps ranger or having local law enforcement called to check you out because you are found with a weapon, best ask the question first and be legal. Yes - I already know it is silly and contradictory - but despite a letter writing campaign about a year ago - I have never heard anything from the Corps except that it is their existing policy and current regulation.

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