TexasCHLforum.com

Chris wrote: i don't see where this big fear of "the man" comes from.

What fear? The ones acting out of fear are those who obediently turn out their pockets, open their trunks, and unquestioningly submit to unwarranted, unjustified searches.

Their fear is based on the threat you issued:

Chris wrote:no, then it would be opened without your consent because you would be placed under arrest for the traffic violation. if you act like a smart azz, the cops will too. not a good idea. there are several ways to get in a car.

If the violation is speeding or open container, and the motorist is willing to sign the promise to appear, he does not need to fear being arrested. Any police officer who is angered by a motorist not consenting to a search should be feared, especially if he'll "find" an arrestable offense during the stop. Any officer who will lie about failure to signal a lane change, just in order to "inventory" a car subsequent to arrest, is morally and legally indistinguishable from one who plants a felony quantity of drugs.

Kevin

EricS76 wrote:

Kalrog wrote:Good info, thanks. So in a routine traffic stop, the officer does not have the right to search solely on refusal to answer. But if he saw a box of ammo, or something gun-related (i.e. holster, the outline of what he precieves to be a gun covered by something), would he then have probable cause to search then?

Eric, I'm not directing this at you personally, but... it's scary how brainwashed Americans have become, into thinking the police can search them "just because".

A "box of ammo, or something gun-related" would not provide probable cause for a search. The outline of a gun would only provide cause, if possessing the gun would be illegal. (A box of ammo would be PC if the searchee was a felon, since felons can't have ammo, either.)

An officer who has stopped you for a traffic violation does not have carte blanch to search you or your vehicle. He has the right to question you about the circumstances which led to the stop. He has the right to engage you in conversation about any subject under the sun, but you're not obliged to repond. He has the right to act upon anything he sees or learns from you.

Absent probable cause, police only have the right to search with your permission. That's why they ask permission! If they have PC, your permission doesn't matter.

Bear in mind that a "vehicle inventory" subsequent to arrest is always possible. And in Texas, the driver can be arrested for every traffic offense except for two.

Kevin

EricS76 wrote:

Renegade wrote: Would like to hear from a lawyer on this, but I think under Terry he could have you exit vehicle and pat you own for weapon, though he could not legally search vehicle.

Why would an officer not have a legal right to search the vehicle at this time?

A "Terry Search" is for officer safety. If you're out of the vehicle, nothing inside the vehicle is a threat to the officer.

I recall some good advice: if asked to exit the vehicle, lock it on your way out. "Force of habit, officer. Take a bite out of crime! :) "

At that point, anything in the vehicle is not only out of reach, it's securely locked. Terry would not apply.

Kevin