TexasCHLforum.com

Papa_Tiger wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:31 am

baytownb wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 am Interesting, a friend of mine shared this post apparently from a 74 year old woman that was one of 5 people out there this weekend. Apparently, according to those that were there they didn't even go to Bonnen's house, which, if you read Bonnen's rant it is consistent since I am sure he would have said they did come to his door again if they did. I think it's valid to hear from someone on the other side that was there. Her name is the first part of the post so it would be easy to look her up if you wanted to. These are all quotes from her.

"From Sandi Curtis
Drama queen Dennis is a liberal fudger. I'd heard about his fudging and now, I can say I've personally experienced his fudging. (A fudger is someone who says things that have a little truth mixed with a whole lot of big, fat lies). Here are the True Facts of what happened in his neighborhood, yesterday around 3:00 p.m. FACT #1: I am one of the five, Constitutional Conservative, Republican, citizens of Texas who thought the voters, who elected Diva Dennis, needed to know how he is representing them. We went to his neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods and Put A Post Card On Their Doors that said he was refusing to protect their 2nd Constitutional Ammendment. FACT #2: We DID NOT KNOCK ON ANY DOORS and NEVER PLACED ANYTHING ON HIS PROPERTY. FACT#3: Diva Dennis did walk out of his house, as we walked past his property, and wanted to know what we were doing. FACT#4: None of us spoke to Diva Dennis because we didn't want any drama. FACT#5: The only people we spoke to were ones that were outside their house and we asked if we could give them our post card. We were respectful and courteous to everyone. FACT# 6: Except for 1 person, every single person we spoke to was kind and willingly received our information. FACT # 7: We were out of Diva Dennis' neighborhood in less than 2 hours. FACT # 8: I did see a law officer in his patrol car sitting in front of Diva Dennis' house. I guess they didn't consider us a threat to his safety nor that we were breaking any laws because they never approached any of us. I do question why Texas Tax Payers are having to pay for Diva Dennis' drama antics and fudging. The next time someone comes on my property and wants me to vote for them or their candidate, can I claim I'm being threatened and get free, state law enforcement protection? I'm 74 years young and, believe me, I've had a lot of politicians knocking on my door, calling me and sending me gobs of mail to seek my vote or support. I could call that harassment but it's The American Process of Electing a Public Servant. I want to know, in writing, what they promise so I can hold them to it. FACT #9: Diva Dennis ran as a Republican and promised to protect our 2nd U.S. Constitutional Ammendment gun rights. Why then did he FACT #10: Appoint a Democrat and passionate, anti-gun proponent as Chairman of the Texas House Gun Control Committee and FACT #11: Announce that NO PRO-GUN RIGHTS LAWS WILL BE CONSIDERED WHILE HE, DIVA DENNIS BONNEN, IS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES . FACT #12: This, dear reader, is why 5 Texas, Constitutional Conservative Republicans passed out post cards that exposed the truth about Diva, Fudge Talking, House of Representatives, District 45, Dennis Bonnen. We hope it will cause them to question and research if they are getting what they voted for."

The two highlighted "facts" are not facts.

Fact 10: Speaker Bonnen appointed Representative Nevarez as chairman of the House Homeland Security & Public Safety committee. There is no "Texas House Gun Control committee".
Fact 11: Speaker Bonnen stated in a Facebook post: "But as they say, talk is cheap... So the final test will be what does or doesn’t happen when the gavel falls at the end of the 86th Legislative Session. I’ll bet my critics an AR-15 that their gun rights won’t be infringed. In the meantime I’ll be working with the tried-and-true gun rights organizations to see if we might be able to actually strengthen the rights for those of us who are responsible gun owners.

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:01 am It appears to me that Mr. Bonnen is fully aware of the likelihood of Texas turning from purple to blue soon, and is strengthening his alliances with the left to make his moving to the Democrat party easier. His public statements parrotting Everytown/Mom talking points, appointing anti-gun Democrats to powerful committee chairs, obfuscating about political moves, etc is evidence he is concerned about his long term position of POWER.

TreyHouston wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:40 am I really doubt the 16 other states that allow it to allow felons to carry openly. I thought there is some type of federal law prohibiting felons from owning firearms. Bonnen Has been waiting for some group to post about that.

DynamicDan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:32 pm Exactly, his statement that law enforcement wouldn't be able to tell the law abiding from the criminals says it all. It's working just fine in 16 other states.

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:50 pm

WildRose wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:17 am

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:04 pm

canvasbck wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:16 am

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:53 pm It's wrong when crowds of idiots surround Cruz or McConnell at dinner and it's wrong when one idiot shows up at a Bonnen's door. Those activities are personal and outside of acceptable political discourse and should be mocked and punished as necessary.

Please enlighten me on what is considered acceptable political discourse.

The guy was passing out flyers in a neighborhood. He didn't even set foot on Bonnen's property. I admit that had the troopers not volunteered to place the flyer, he probably would have left one on his door. OK...........aaaaaaaannnnnddddd???

Flyers are left on my vehicle all the time, I have never felt threatened because of it. They aren't left on my door because I have gates on my driveway, flyers have been left on my gate. I either read them or throw them away. No harm, no foul.

The other side is encouraged BY LAWMAKERS to harass members of POTUS' administration "wherever you see them", yet passing out flyers is too extreme for "our" side??? This attitude is the way to lose in the court of public opinion.

Antifa attacking Cruz and McConnell during the Kavanaugh hearings was obscene. Taking a firm stand against that sort of ludicrous behavior is important, and to me, that stand includes condemnation of folks who show up at the homes of government officials.

Oh good gravy, what McNutt did is in no way similar to the radical leftists showing up to riot and intimidate Cruz and others at their homes.

Bonnen and others feel completely insulated from the people they rule over. Peacefully and politely dropping off fliers at their homes and in their neighborhoods does not threaten them in any way, it simply reminds them that their actions in Austin hit the rest of us right where we live and that they are responsible to us.

I disagree. At BEST, McNutt's actions were ineffective and at worst they give Bonnen cover to renege on promises. If Bonnen keeps votes because he successfully lies to the gun owners in his district about McNutt's actions, McNutt still screwed up. Political speech that depends upon politicians acting in an honest and upright manner is the worst kind of stupid, regardless of its intentions. Showing up in a public figure's yard is foolhardy and grossly counterproductive. It costs our cause moderate votes and it's in bad taste.

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:04 pm

canvasbck wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:16 am

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:53 pm It's wrong when crowds of idiots surround Cruz or McConnell at dinner and it's wrong when one idiot shows up at a Bonnen's door. Those activities are personal and outside of acceptable political discourse and should be mocked and punished as necessary.

Please enlighten me on what is considered acceptable political discourse.

The guy was passing out flyers in a neighborhood. He didn't even set foot on Bonnen's property. I admit that had the troopers not volunteered to place the flyer, he probably would have left one on his door. OK...........aaaaaaaannnnnddddd???

Flyers are left on my vehicle all the time, I have never felt threatened because of it. They aren't left on my door because I have gates on my driveway, flyers have been left on my gate. I either read them or throw them away. No harm, no foul.

The other side is encouraged BY LAWMAKERS to harass members of POTUS' administration "wherever you see them", yet passing out flyers is too extreme for "our" side??? This attitude is the way to lose in the court of public opinion.

Antifa attacking Cruz and McConnell during the Kavanaugh hearings was obscene. Taking a firm stand against that sort of ludicrous behavior is important, and to me, that stand includes condemnation of folks who show up at the homes of government officials.

Papa_Tiger wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:37 am

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:06 am

baytownb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:06 am

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:53 pm It's wrong when crowds of idiots surround Cruz or McConnell at dinner and it's wrong when one idiot shows up at a Bonnen's door. Those activities are personal and outside of acceptable political discourse and should be mocked and punished as necessary.

Bonnen's lies are immaterial to McNutt's foolishness.

Precisely what is "personal" and "outside of acceptable political discourse"? Passing out flyers to contact the speaker and other key politicians to support a gun rights issue or him walking up to DPS and handing them a flyer to put on his door along with the hundreds of others he was passing out while never stepping foot on his property? Which one of those two known actions is so horrible to you? Have you ever said it was "personal" and "outside of acceptable political discourse" when the same politicians come to our houses with political material? If not why do you think politicians have special privileges to engage in what you call "personal and outside of acceptable political discourse"?

State elected officials all maintain "contact me" options online. Mcnutt may not like that, but that's the accepted pathway. Showing up at a stranger's door from across the state is not "handing out fliers, and we would all condemn that behavior if anti gun nutters did it to pro gun Congressmen.

Let me tell you about the "contact me" options that you have. Sending an e-mail is ignored. My wife has written several messages to committee members about a bill that we are particularly interested in AND our rep. No response. Nothing. Not even an automated "thank you for writing us". That doesn't mean that our feedback isn't being heard, but there is no indication that it has been heard or even received.

Call the office and you may get a person, but again, no guarantee that the info will actually get to the rep.

Snail mail? Unanswered.

The way our representatives and senators respond to us (or don't) sure makes it feel that our voice isn't being heard. I see nothing wrong in canvassing a neighborhood to try to get a message across to our representatives, particularly if previous communication has fallen into a black hole known as the State Capitol.

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:06 am

baytownb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:06 am

MaduroBU wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:53 pm It's wrong when crowds of idiots surround Cruz or McConnell at dinner and it's wrong when one idiot shows up at a Bonnen's door. Those activities are personal and outside of acceptable political discourse and should be mocked and punished as necessary.

Bonnen's lies are immaterial to McNutt's foolishness.

Precisely what is "personal" and "outside of acceptable political discourse"? Passing out flyers to contact the speaker and other key politicians to support a gun rights issue or him walking up to DPS and handing them a flyer to put on his door along with the hundreds of others he was passing out while never stepping foot on his property? Which one of those two known actions is so horrible to you? Have you ever said it was "personal" and "outside of acceptable political discourse" when the same politicians come to our houses with political material? If not why do you think politicians have special privileges to engage in what you call "personal and outside of acceptable political discourse"?

State elected officials all maintain "contact me" options online. Mcnutt may not like that, but that's the accepted pathway. Showing up at a stranger's door from across the state is not "handing out fliers, and we would all condemn that behavior if anti gun nutters did it to pro gun Congressmen.

carlson1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:19 am

DynamicDan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:15 am

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 pm

apostate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:35 pm

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:01 pm Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if you have a problem with how someone is doing business you visit them where they conduct business unless you know them personally.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if politicians don't want voters to contact them at home, they shouldn't contact voters at home.

Matthew 7:5

But the point is that Bonnen wasn't at home, if McNutt wanted to contact him then McNutt would have been in Austin. This wasn't an effort to contact Bonnen, at best it was a publicity stunt gone wrong and in politics publicity stunts backfire more often than not.

Uh, McNutt didn't do anything wrong.

May have not been wrong, but it sure wasn’t smart.

apostate wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:35 pm

G.A. Heath wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:01 pm Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if you have a problem with how someone is doing business you visit them where they conduct business unless you know them personally.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if politicians don't want voters to contact them at home, they shouldn't contact voters at home.

Matthew 7:5

mojo84 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:24 pm

flechero wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:47 am

mojo84 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:33 am

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:16 am So Bonnen lied/exaggerated/mischaracterized/politicized whatever you want to call it. Most politicians do that without a second thought.

What Bonnen didn't lie about was McNutt going to his and other legislators homes while they were in Austin for the legislative session. And that is the crux of what McNutt did to reflect badly upon himself and law abiding gun owners in Texas who want less restrictions on their 2nd Amendment rights. That he did it in the nicest, gentlest manner possible doesn't mean he was right in doing it.

No elected official is going to go after the Speaker in an effort to oust him during the legislative session over this.

What he did and how he did it are examples of passive aggressive behavior. He drove across the state to show up at their homes and neighborhoods while the legislators weren't home to let them know he and his followers know where they live.

What he did is a passive aggressive method of doxing and intimidation.

I'm surprised by these comments. So we should accept bonnen's slanderous behavior/character attack as fine/normal, but someone acting as a gentleman having a conversation with a State Trooper is problematic?

I also missed the doxing and intimidation part? The trooper put the flier on the door, after a pleasant and light conversation. The fact the TXGR's own person delivered it is no more "intimidating" than hiring a person to go door to door.

Is this different than a politician sending political canvassers to my home asking for a vote. They have my address and know my name. Door hangers/fliers are now aggressive? I guess I should feel really threatened by about 50 different politicians.

Where have I indicated anything close to accepting Bonnen's slanderous behavior? Just because I disagree with McNutt driving across the state to show up at legislators' homes and publicizing it on the internet through his facebook group to thousands of his followers (doxing) doesn't mean I accept Bonnen's behavior. I have been against Bonnen before he was elected speaker and was blasted for it on here and scolded like a child. I think if you actually read my comments, some of which were part of a thread that has been locked or deleted, you would realize I take issue with how both men have handled themselves and the situation.

As McNutt said, he has thousands of followers in his facebook group and he has admitted to sharing the home information about 3 legislators through that group in order to put pressure on the legislators. The only reason he had a conversation with the trooper is because they intercepted him because McNutt has publicized his visit to two other legislators' homes and planned to visit Bonnen's. If he hadn't publicized his activities, the Troopers would not have been there in the first place.

Showing up at a political adversaries home when you know he is not home, which is private property, and publicizing it through the internet is not the same as sending something via mail or having random volunteer canvassers deliver something to be hung on a door. Just because you believe in the cause, doesn't mean the means is justified. Again, I am no fan of Bonnen and am in no way defending him, his actions, his comments or his conduct. I just do not agree with showing up at a political adversaries home, especially, when it is known he is not there.

Think of it this way. Let's say you and I have a serious disagreement over an issue and I am really upset that you disagree with me and then I happen to show up at your house to deliver a written explanation of my position. Oh, and I also deliver it to your neighbors hoping they would put pressure on you to agree with me. Then you find out I publicized it to 250,000+, or however many followers McNutt claims, would that change your opinion about me just canvassing your neighborhood?

Bottom line, Bonnen is a lying turncoat that played the system, got the power he wanted and then screwed many that supported him. McNutt crossed a line that he shouldn't have.

mojo84 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:33 am

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:16 am So Bonnen lied/exaggerated/mischaracterized/politicized whatever you want to call it. Most politicians do that without a second thought.

What Bonnen didn't lie about was McNutt going to his and other legislators homes while they were in Austin for the legislative session. And that is the crux of what McNutt did to reflect badly upon himself and law abiding gun owners in Texas who want less restrictions on their 2nd Amendment rights. That he did it in the nicest, gentlest manner possible doesn't mean he was right in doing it.

No elected official is going to go after the Speaker in an effort to oust him during the legislative session over this.

What he did and how he did it are examples of passive aggressive behavior. He drove across the state to show up at their homes and neighborhoods while the legislators weren't home to let them know he and his followers know where they live.

What he did is a passive aggressive method of doxing and intimidation.

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:16 am So Bonnen lied/exaggerated/mischaracterized/politicized whatever you want to call it. Most politicians do that without a second thought.

What Bonnen didn't lie about was McNutt going to his and other legislators homes while they were in Austin for the legislative session. And that is the crux of what McNutt did to reflect badly upon himself and law abiding gun owners in Texas who want less restrictions on their 2nd Amendment rights. That he did it in the nicest, gentlest manner possible doesn't mean he was right in doing it.

No elected official is going to go after the Speaker in an effort to oust him during the legislative session over this.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:42 pm

apostate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality. He has a history of only promoting that part which makes him look heroic, and burying those parts that make him look like a fool. It's my observation that the latter instances outnumber the former.

This particular video doesn’t show him, and it seems pretty straightforward. But as a general thing, I think that Grisham has done more harm than good for increasing the acceptance of 2nd Amendment rights by politicians.

What I meant is:

A. I am generally mistrustful of CJ Grisham because I think he is an unstable individual. He has a LONG history of placing himself at the center of controversies between police and open carry advocates, and has even broken federal law on camera (I.e. open carrying in Oklahoma subsequent to a disqualifying conviction here in Texas). His imprimatur is on the beginning of THIS video, so I was initially mistrustful when I started to watch it.

B. I ALSO said (above) that THIS video seems straightforward. In other words, it doesn’t seem like CJ's usual fare. I’m happy for that.

I’m not sure how much more elaboration is necessary. CJ's own record right here on this forum, in debates with Charles Cotton - who had done WAY MORE for the cause of the 2nd Amendment over a period of decades than CJ Grisham will ever accomplish - is the record of an excitable, not entirely stable person, not entirely grounded in reality, with little understanding of what happens in the halls of gov’t. I don’t mean that he’s hallucinating or anything like that. I mean that he has a singular view of both human nature and how the world works, which is not in sync with either reality. It comes off - to me, anyway, as well as to many others - as egomaniacal and off-putting.

You catch more flies with honey. He never learned that most fundamental of social skills; and that makes him a poor witness for the 2nd Amendment, in a world in which we need to win more allies, not make more enemies. I’m actually glad that he seemed to have taken a step back from things for a couple of years. If all he ever does going forward is to make videos like this one, then he might be able to make up for some of the damage he’s done in the past.

I hope that is enough elaboration, and yes, Bonnen DID lie.

Pawpaw wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:29 pm

apostate wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

Capture.JPG