Search found 12 matches

by ScottDLS
Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:19 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
...
I am thinking about a business, say a convenience store, that posts a sign saying "Pursuant to section 85.09 of the Texas criminal code it is a felony (punishable by a maximum of 2 years in prison) to use the public restrooms in this business without purchasing a minimum of $5.00 in merchandise." Or makes some other false statement about the law in order to coerce patrons into complying with the business owners preferences. My question is whether the dispensing of such erroneous legal advice is a crime.
That sign would automatically be notice under 30.05 that you would be committing criminal trespass by failing to purchase at least $5.00 of merchandise. Even if you bought a service (like a carwash) you could still be prosecuted. :evil2:

This due to the 180 year tradition of Texas holding private property rights in the highest regard....
by ScottDLS
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:28 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
LucasMcCain wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:Scott can you please run for office?
I'd vote for him.
:iagree:

I'd also make a campaign donation
"rlol" "rlol" "rlol" I'm not sure I could pass the "background check". I'm sure my vote percentages would be right up there with Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

I once heard of an 18 year old high school student being elected to JP in a small Texas county. Or maybe I can be like my talk radio hero, Mark Levin, and run for School Board. I promise to provide written authorization to all LTC holders to carry in LISD schools.... :smilelol5:
by ScottDLS
Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:01 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

:iagree:

If you ask them to leave because they are carrying a gun, or put up a sign to that effect, and they refuse, you just can't have them arrested, because it's not a crime on government owned property. If you try to use ammo ban as a subterfuge for banning LTC carry on government property you'll probably have no success enforcing 30.06. Most importantly if you don't notice...what are you going to do about it...? :evil2:
by ScottDLS
Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:00 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

:iagree:

That's why I will just sneak in with the ammo, buy ammo, and reload, and/or lie if questioned about it... :biggrinjester:

TAM said he may have been mistaken about the metal detectors at the show. I went last year and they had signs and cops, but no metal detectors, so I just walked in. I would definitely be mad if I walked in to find that I had to dump my ammo, but it may not be the case. Perhaps somebody else who went to the gun show this week can tell us.
by ScottDLS
Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:05 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

jmorris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
jmorris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.
So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?
None, you'd just be asked to leave for violating his rules.
And if I refused? Would I be charged? With what? What if the mayor of Ft. Worth made a rule, no live ammo in city hall. Not a law (preemption applies), but then the Ft. Worth PD checked you in a metal detector and made you empty all your ammo and zip tied your gun... :mrgreen:
It's the same as any business. I don't like something you're doing, I ask you to leave, you refuse, now it's trepass.
Would that be criminal trespass by a LTC, 30.06?
PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
...
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
Or would it be Criminal Trespass PC 30.05?
30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
...
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
I don't see how either criminal statute applies on government property...
by ScottDLS
Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:36 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

jmorris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.
So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?
None, you'd just be asked to leave for violating his rules.
And if I refused? Would I be charged? With what? What if the mayor of Ft. Worth made a rule, no live ammo in city hall. Not a law (preemption applies), but then the Ft. Worth PD checked you in a metal detector and made you empty all your ammo and zip tied your gun... :mrgreen:
by ScottDLS
Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:32 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

doncb wrote:All of the talk about the 30.06 / .07 is fine. Everyone can agree that the signs are not enforceable. However, the show organizer CAN prohibit almost anything they want. They can prohibit cigars if they want to. If they don't want you bringing in ammo (as a non vendor) or a loaded gun they are well within their rights. If they hire off duty police to handle the policy the city has nothing to do with it. Don't like it don't go.
So what law would you be charged with breaking for ignoring the show promoter's rules and carrying a loaded concealed handgun ON GOVERNMENT OWNED PROPERTY (i.e. property that you paid for)?
by ScottDLS
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:10 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

lfinsr wrote:I went yesterday and carried like I always do without incident. I always park in the garage across the street and use the North entrance. There was no sign of a metal detector. I assume this was at the South entrance you encountered this new procedure?
Oh very good. I might do this today. :evil2:
by ScottDLS
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:07 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

stroo wrote:So its the metal detector that's new.

In any case, you can either decide to unload your gun or not go to the show. That's essentially the choice we've always have had.
Previously we've had the choice to ignore the legally unenforceable policy and carry without being (illegally?) searched by local PD.
by ScottDLS
Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:22 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rodgers

stroo wrote:What is new here?? I haven't been to a gun show in the last ten years where they didn't require you to present your unloaded gun to them, they zip tied it and then they asked if you had ammo on you.
And what do they arrest you for if you lie and say no as you walk in with a concealed loaded handgun?

I've walked into this same gun show last year past a sign saying no loaded firearms. There was a cop around, but apparently TAM said this year there is a metal detector. If they can do this at the Will Rodgers for the gun show, what's to stop them from doing it at State Fair or Ft Worth or Dallas City Hall? :mad5
by ScottDLS
Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:54 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Re: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rodgers

What I would do in the above case is unload in the car, go in the show, buy some ammo, and reload in the bathroom stall. :mad5
by ScottDLS
Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:51 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers
Replies: 55
Views: 14003

Ft Worth Enforcing Ammo Ban at Will Rogers

Took this out of the other thread per TAM Request, but this garbage has to STOP!!!
The Annoyed Man wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Well, to heck with that. I did t mind having a cop unload my weapon, but when they told me I had to either throw away $50 worth of ammunition or walk it back to my car, I decided that was the very last time I'll try the Ft Worth gun show. I'm too old and cranky for that crap. After it took me 35 minutes to get across the 30 east to 35 north interchange, I headed up to Cabelas. My money spends just as good there.
I DO MIND UNLOADING MY WEAPON! If I might ask, how did they know you were carrying? And, the FW Police made you unload? Why doesn't city hall and the State Fair do this too. The AG won't do anything about it... :banghead:
No, they didn't make me unload, because I told them I thought the policy was in violation of the law, and complete cow manure, and that I was going to find some other way to spend my afternoon.

I was thinking that they would probably make me unload, but I didn't think they'd make me throw away $50 worth of perfectly good ammo. There's a table with three cops sitting at it, and then it looked to me you pass through a metal detector. So, there was no getting in with a concealed gun, at least that I could see. Maybe someone else did and got away with it, in which case, I say Good for YOU!!! :thumbs2: So I surrendered to the inevitable, approached the table, and said "I guess I have to declare a gun here?" The officer asked, "are you carrying a loaded gun?" When I said yes, he said there's two ways I can enter: (1) You can unload the gun here and empty the magazines, but you can't carry any loose ammo into the show. You can leave the ammo with us, but you won't get it back. OR, (2) you can walk back to your car, unload the gun and magazine(s), leave the ammo in your car, and come back in."

Well, I'm an old man, and I have a bum knee and a bad back (both of which were already hurting by the time I got to the entrance), and that was a long walk from the parking lot - no way I was going to walk back out to the car, then walk back into the venue. It just wasn't worth it. (BTW, with all the construction going on around there, parking options are pretty reduced.) I told the nice officer that there is no way in hades that I was going to throw away $50 worth of premium self defense ammo (46 rounds of 135 grain Hornady +P Critical Duty, $24.49/box of 25 at Bass Pro where I bought it), just so I could also pay the entry fee on top of that. I told him that I thought it was cow manure, and I told him that I know what the law says, and YOU know what the law says, and I can't believe that a law enforcement officer is helping the city to violate the law. Then I said that I'd find something else to do with my afternoon. He had no answer to that, so I left.

And I did find something else to do with my afternoon. I went to Cabelas instead and spent $2,000 on a thermal rifle scope I might have bought at the show if the promoters weren't such mullet-heads. They can all go pound sand. I'm never going to the Ft Worth gun show again until they pull their heads out of the dark places they've been keeping them.

I'll be sending a letter to the gunshow management. I know it will do bupkis, but I want them to know that their foolishness is costing their vendors money, and it will make me feel better. When it starts costing their vendors more to pay for booth space than they make in sales profits, they'll stop attending the show; and hopefully the organizers will go out of business.

Not that I have an opinion about it.

But honestly, I'd like to end the conversation there, because I didn't start off to hijack Crossfire's thread. Sorry about that Crossfire.

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