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74novaman wrote:

Excaliber wrote:Mas Ayoob's account of the incident in question can be found here. It's an excellent example of continuous reassessment of risk during an unexpected really bad incident, and decisive action when the risk of failing to act exceeds the high risks involved in using deadly force to protect innocent life.

Bingo. Which is why I used it as an example. I only hope I would keep such a cool head under such circumstances.

The account of this incident is also a great reminder of the importance of a good holster, belt, and magazine carrier.

Having to drop your drawers like the hero of the above story to get to a reload is something I don't recommend. He clearly didn't enjoy the experience either, but survived anyway because he ran out of attackers before he needed to fire again.

Cheap holsters, belts, and mag carriers are really the most expensive when you need them most - they can cost you your life.

surprise_i'armed wrote:74novaman said:
Take the example of the Marine in the Subway sandwich shop (can't remember where or when). Robbers came in, brandishing guns. Demanded money. He gave them his wallet. When they took him back to the bathroom and got him on his knees execution style, the situation had changed, and he engaged them.

IIRC, this incident happened in Florida and this older Marine
was carrying a 1911 in .45.

Anyone who has a better recall than I is hereby empowered to correct this.

SIA

Mas Ayoob's account of the incident in question can be found here. It's an excellent example of continuous reassessment of risk during an unexpected really bad incident, and decisive action when the risk of failing to act exceeds the high risks involved in using deadly force to protect innocent life.

Fangs wrote:My heart says I should fear the indifference of good men, my head says I better have a very good shot on the guy. Also, failure to stop him now will almost certainly lead to worse events later. I wouldn't go looking for trouble, but if I'm there and able to stop it I'd feel a moral obligation to... unless I'm wetting my pants.

Very well said.

There's a great deal of complexity to any such situation - moving people (innocents and bad guys), opaque barriers that you can't see through but that won't stop bullets, potential ricochet surfaces, unidentified other lawful weapon carriers who can mistake you for a BG, etc.

Unless all these variables can be controlled and the circumstances are such that the risks to innocent life from not intervening are greater than the risks from taking direct action, you and everyone else will be more likely to come out in good shape by taking the "good witness" approach rather than starting a gun fight, the outcome of which can never be predicted with certainty beforehand. Money can be replaced - lives can't.

On the other hand, if you have good reason to believe that innocent life is about to be lost, the equation changes and the situation may justify taking high risks to mitigate even greater ones. It'll be your call.