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If you're touting "good barbecue" in Kalifornia, I think the Texas Rangers can run you out of the state for such transgressions. It's one thing to prefer Deep South pulled pork over Texas brisket (a matter of taste), but to actually enjoy BBQ from a communist state is akin to treason.

Hoosier Daddy wrote:subscribe

I hear about legen-waitforit-dary Texas BBQ but so far in Houston it's been OK but not great.

Ya gotta get out of the big city and find the good country BBQ spots

Keith, I think you misunderstood my comment about consistency. All BBQ I've had from stainless smokers is consistent - consistently mediocre. Some wood smoked pit BBQ is mediocre, some great, and every once in a while it's transcendent.

Again, has to do with art vs science. I agree the stainless designs should produce better product - more modern, technologically superior design. But my personal experience is they produce a mediocre product when compared to the best wood smoked pits.

Keith B wrote:They are gas-fired and have a wood box. The big advantage is you can control the temperature with the gas better. And, you cook on indirect heat, not over the coals, so the heat and smoke hit the meat together. That gives you that red smoke ring!!

Over the coals? I don't know anyone who makes BBQ over the coals. Pit barbecue is also indirect heat/smoke and it's the design of the particular pit that is key (plus the experience and expertise of the pit master). I've heard of pit masters who can vary the temp of their meat box by as little as one degree just by opening or closing certain dampers or whatever. It is truly more of an art than a science to cook great BBQ in a wood fired pit - an art for which I have very little talent but much appreciation. The beauty of pit BBQ vs those newer stainless contraptions is varied nature of the "art" itself - and the masterful skill required to turn out consistently good meat using such methods.

IMHO, BBQ that tastes the same each time (like the indoor smokers) loses much of its mystique and while it might be consistently "good" can never rise to the level of great because it doesn't have that true, rustic, earthy quality to it. And honestly I think smoke rings - while essential to good BBQ - are over-rated as a judging parameter. I've had really bland tasting BBQ with world class smoke rings and I've had melt-in-your-mouth-fall-off-the-bone good BBQ with minimal smoke ring (but plenty of delicious smoke flavor).

Another analogy (sure to stir the pot further ) is that stainless indoor smokers are like Glocks - modern, antiseptic, bland "Perfection" and wood-fired true pit smoked BBQ is the 1911 - temperamental, beautiful, out-dated, and still better than anything that's followed it

*flame suit on*

Keith, not sure the contraption in that link is same thing I was referring to. But I'll admit I'm not experienced enough to know for sure. The "smokers" I've seen (and tasted) use a "clean" heat source (gas, electricity) and as said earlier basically heat water-soaked wood chips or charcoal to give a pseudo smoky flavor. Does your buddy's device cook by burning wood/ charcoal directly to create the heat and smoke?

My complaint from a pure taste standpoint with what I've had from all of the stainless "smokers " I've personally tried is they taste "fake" and I can pick out meat from one of these vs true wood-fired pit almost without fail. True smoke flavor can't be imitated or "controlled" in such a manner.

Only worthwhile analogy I can make to this is true wine snobs (connoisseurs, if you prefer) who can sip wine and tell you if it was aged in oak barrels or stainless casks.

I honestly can't think of a single BBQ place I like in Houston. Lived there nearly 25 years and didn't really start to like BBQ until I got to Austin/San Antonio area. Take a road trip to Lockhart (southeast of Austin) and experience real Texas BBQ.

Lambda Force wrote:

A-R wrote:On a side note, I think the method of cooking is the biggest problem many Texans have with "other" BBQ styles around the country. A lot of pork, especially heavily sauced, is just hiding the dirty little secret that it's cooked with electricity or gas and not wood.

I think that's true for most places that pour on the sauce. They're hiding something.
A little sauce (not flavored corn syrup) is nice on the side but real BBQ tastes good without sauce.

Exactly!

puma guy wrote: I don't know if I'm right or not but I believe the big chains have humidity controlled smokers to reduce shrinkage and increase profits. My ex broter in law's family had a BBQ place for forty years in Houston on Park Place and were put out of when Luther's opened on the Gulf Freeway. We ate at Luther's together once and I mentioned the meat just didn't quite taste BBQy for lack of a better word. He said it was because the pits were contolled for shrinkage. The meat was sort of like what you get from the smokers that have a water/liquid bowl in them like RediSmoke and Brinkman.

I think you're right on. I remember Luther's (grew up in Houston) and it was terrible. Exactly the non-BBQ I was describing. This is why I actually like Rudy's, it's REAL BBQ cooked on wood-fired smoke in a stone pit.

Pork vs beef ... personal preference

Sauce vs dry rub ... personal taste

Oak vs Mesquite vs pecan vs hickory vs apple ... personal choice

But can we all at least agree that any place that cooks meat in one if those giant indoor stainless steel rotisserie "smokers" is NOT barbecue and is an abomination that should be prohibited by law from using the term "barbecue" or "BBQ"? As far as I'm concerned, if the meat is cooked with anything other than burning WOOD it is NOT barbecue and not worth eating if it fraudulently claims to be BBQ. I like a good oven roast as much as the next guy, just don't call it barbecue when you serve it.

On a side note, I think the method of cooking is the biggest problem many Texans have with "other" BBQ styles around the country. A lot of pork, especially heavily sauced, is just hiding the dirty little secret that it's cooked with electricity or gas and not wood.

pbwalker wrote:I don't get the fascination with the Salt Lick. I've gone twice and, to me, it just tastes like standard BBQ. A touch better than Bill Millers. Is there a particular cut I should I try? Maybe I'm missing something...

The original Salt Lick is famous for its all-you-can eat meat platters (need to split with at least 4-6 people to make it worth your while from a bang-for-the-buck perspective) also it was (still is?) a BYOB establishment that attracted UT and SWT students for decades. But I agree the BBQ is good but not great. A lot better than Bill Miller's though (I always hated that greasy place when I lived in SA).

Smokey Mo's is a Austin chain. Not bad but not great. Similar to Rudy's in flavor, a bit greasier and closer to "urban" flavor than "rural" when compared to Rudy's, if that makes sense.

SigM4 wrote: City Market in Luling.

Really need to try them. Heard great things.

And agree with previous posts that all BBQ in Lockhart is good - Smitty's is just best of the best.

Definitely see regional differences within Texas.

Pork Is BBQ. But I don't like it nearly as much as good beef brisket. Pork is easy. Good beef BBQ takes considerable skill and time.

Smitty's ( the original Kreuz's) in Lockhart is best I've had anywhere. SMOKED PRIME RIB.

Southside Market and Meyer's in Elgin have fantastic sausage

Original Salt Lick in Driftwood is good but not great (other locations around Austin are average at best)

The original Rudy's in Leon Springs is good too (better than the chain/franchised locations)

Only eaten at the Cooper's in Junction, and it is good but a bit salty

Mikeskas and Muellers in Taylor both good last time I ate there but it's been years.

.... if you can't tell I'm very partial to Central Texas slow smoked barbecue. Y'all can keep the pulled pork, St Louis and Memphis ribs, KC style and all the rest. I'll stick with slow smoked brisket, ribs, sausage, and turkey with the slightly spicy dry rub and minimal sauce on the side. Even Houston and DFW style BBQ is too "Yankee" for my tastes