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Dave2 wrote:As of 2010/12/22, it was five.

You are correct. I was only referring to murders in the city limits. I believe that 5 adds in the murders in the county as well with includes a number of small communities such as Canutillo, Socorro, San Eli, and more. Our excellent EPPD does not patrol those areas, but we have a top notch Sheriff's Dept. that takes care of those folks. 5 is a more honest number as it doesn't split hairs and is less confusing.

BillT wrote:Probably we should just go by the facts of this incident rather than coming up with "likelihoods" of other possible scenarios. Otherwise we sound like gun nuts! Bottom line is the crowd stopped him from loading the second magazine. A 10 rounder certainly would have had less people wounded. How can that be disputed if we only go by the facts of this particular incident?

To say "a 10 rounder certainly would have wounded less people" is also an assumption. It would not have helped Ms. Giffords, nor the 9-year old, or the judge according to witness reports. There is an automatic presumption that a high capacity weapon is a more dangerous weapon. If that were true, why do so many law enforcement agents, special forces, and highly trained and knowledgeable shooters choose to carry 7 or 8 shot 1911 models instead of high capacity Glocks? Personally, I feel that 8-10 rounds and a couple of spare magazines is more than sufficient for my self defense. If you gave me the choice of three 10 rounders or one 30 rounder, I would take three 10 round magazines because in the event of magazine malfunction, I still have two more.

That being said, I would fight hard to keep the right to own or carry higher capacity magazines for those who choose to carry them. Gun control does not work. I have lived most of my life living right on the Mexican border. Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws in the world, yet the city of Juarez had over 3100 murders last year, while gun friendly El Paso had 2. If there is anyone out there who believes that gun control works, I would invite them to take a tour of Juarez. I won't go with them, but I will draw a map so they can get to some cool locations.

In El Paso Texas, there are a lot of people who are legally licensed and carrying high capacity Glocks, FivenseveNs, XD's and a lot of 1911s as well. 2 murders in 2010. Across the river, if you are caught with a single bullet in your pocket, you are going to jail. Over 3100 murders. And I am not talking about stabbings, I am talking about people getting mowed down with fully automatic AK-47s and hand grenades. Those guys are not using Glocks with 30 round magazines either.

If I told you that strict gun control in the U.S. could lead to drug cartels, extortionists, murders, and kidnappers running the street and our people hiding in their homes and living in fear, you would say that I am an alarmist, but that is exactly what has happened a mile from my doorstep. I don't want our great country going down the same path.

BillT wrote:He was stopped by the crowd after emptying the 30 round magazine and trying to reload another. So for some reason I come up with less than half as many people would have been shot if he only had 10 round magazines. In my mind that is substantially less havoc.
Am I missing something?

This would only be true if the bullets which struck the victims were evenly dispersed through out the 30 round magazine. In all likelihood, the most deadly and destructive rounds were the first rounds the shooter fired, before his victims scattered. Most of the misses, in all probability, came from the bottom of the magazine, not the top.
You simply cannot make society safer by attempting to control what law abiding citizens are legally allowed to own. If my memory serves me correctly, there were a series of savage stabbings of elementary school children in China last year, where many children were killed and maimed by evil men with "psychological" problems. I don't believe the fact that the men used a knife rather than a gun makes it less tragic.
As a society, we must hold the Tucson shooter accountable for his premeditated and deliberate actions, and not blame the system for not getting him help when he was a boy.

This is just a ridiculous poll. It is typical of the anti-gun lobby to try and capitalize off a terrible incident to further their political agenda. The Tucson shooter was no more enabled to cause havoc due to his 30 round magazines than he would have with 10 rounders. In fact, if he had been shooting a .45 with a 10 round magazine, Ms. Giffords would likely not have survived. A semi-skilled shooter can drop a 10 round magazine and load another in about one second, so the high capacity argument is only meant to inflame people who know nothing about guns. Unfortunately, it is not possible to legislate the evil out of men's hearts. At least we live in a state where responsible citizens have an option to defend themselves rather than trying to tackle a deranged shooter between reloading 10 round magazines as some are suggesting.