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sjfcontrol wrote:4th class mail WILL disappear if the sender needs to pay UPS rates to send it! we are paying the telcos for universal service, and low- end computers are quite inexpensive- and decreasing in price.

Not inexpensive for everyone, sorry, no. And plastic is the devil that got us into this mess. Also, remember where the the computers are made, and whose currency is currently leading in the race to the bottom.

The telcos are not giving their bandwidth away for free. Actually, tiered pricing is already being implemented as we type, and its purpose is not to decrease pricing. Note that Netflix is already seeing the light -- of the train coming down the track toward them; they are finally being billed for their formerly "free" bandwidth.

Many people are hurting, bad, and the number is increasing by the week, and it will not get better in the near future. We must not cavalierly remove a staple of life from those who are not well off, and 1st class mail is still a staple for most of us.

As for 4th class mail, the advertisers will simply cut the same deals with UPS that they cut with USPS. They're here to stay.

ETA: Good grief, I forgot one of the biggest problems! Remember privacy? There is no such thing with the Internet. No matter what kind of security (and what fraction of folks send secure email -- not even most agencies of the government), everything sent by Internet is subject to interception due to the number of hops between sender and receiver. Nothing private must ever be sent by email. Good luck with that PSK....

sjfcontrol wrote:Man! You're really overthinking it. Now that email is good for almost everything, the USPS delivers almost nothing but junk mail. Just kill the USPS and let private industry deliver whatever's left. No more junk. And the extra cost of what's left is motivation to deliver everything possible electronically.

Email has a very expensive (and increasing) cost of ownership. More and more people, even if technologically proficient, are finding they have to choose between an Internet service and paying the rent. Public libraries are not the answer for a significant increase in demand. Requiring citizens to purchase those necessities is simply an additional burden, when there is an adequate alternative in 1st class mail.

And, there are still people who prefer to write by hand, as well as do arithmetic without a calculator!

And, no, 4th class mail will not cease just because someone else is carrying it (the myth of the magic of advertising still remains). However, I agree that 4th class mail is likely not paying their share of the cost.

Dave2 wrote:

koolaid wrote:

Dave2 wrote:
What if I set out a "Private Delivery Company" box? And what about those doors with slots in them? Can they push stuff through those?

Private Express Statutes.

Short answer: no. In 1979 they decided to allow for "emergency" deliveries of letters by private carriers, but that is pretty much it. It is illegal.

That really is outrageous.

I think I might start a list of crappy laws and offer my vote to whomever can make it all legal again.

It's been that way for a very long time, for very good reasons. Security of the mail has always been a large concern, and that's why mail tampering is a Federal offense.

There was a time when we had our mail delivered to a general store (yeah, it's been a while, and that general store was the entire town!), so we knew the people personally. Mostly, though, our mail was driven many miles out of town. Very reliable; it was extremely rare for anything to be lost or tampered with. RFD was a great thing.

Right or wrong, I really cannot bring myself to the level of trust with the brown or white trucks that I had with the red, white and blue trucks, even when I can't even trust the local P.O. in the city these days, since we've had more important-type mail "lost" there than we ever did with the mail carriers. Heck, we've even had problems with the white truck with our surplus ammo!

Since it's since been given to a "private" concern (except when they want special consideration), and the quality of service has plummeted, it's hard to know what to do about it. I can see private mail delivery becoming like a cross between recycling and power services: One box for each type of mail, bought only from the vendor, and you have to change carriers when you move, and billing for delivery (yeah, what would stop them from charging the receiver for the "service"?) would be based on the amount delivered....

There really is no easy answer, I think.

sjfcontrol wrote:Umm, I would contend that email is "written" communications, and doesn't cost anywhere near $0.43 to/from anywhere in the world with internet access.
Apparently, you are referring to "printed" or "hardcopy" communications.
So email your communications, and have them print it at the destination, if required.

Not everyone is adequately "connected." Takes money that many people don't have (and many have never had), and is a hard-learned skill for many more. These are good times to be thankful for what we have.

Texgun wrote:Are the courts going to find ALL government property is a SENSITIVE location? I was hoping that someone would interpret sensitive buildings to be places that store nuclear weapons or some similar threshold, not post office lobbies.

Plaintiffs’ claim fails as a matter of law. The Supreme Court has specifically stated that“laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and governmentbuildings,” like the USPS regulation at issue here, are “presumptively lawful.” District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783, 2816-17 (2008). Relying on Heller, the Courts of Appeals,including the Tenth Circuit, have uniformly held that regulatory measures like the USPSregulation do not violate, or even implicate, the Second Amendment

The current assumption, as explained to the Federal workforce, is already as you stated: ALL Federal government property is "National Treasure," since those assets serve the purpose of the United States and its citizens. As such, it is all sensitive, and, moreover, is owned by all US citizens. Somewhere, years ago, the decision was made that "weapons" were prohibited (including cans of gasoline) on Federal property in order to safeguard the national assets.

ETA: Exceptions may be made (for prior-use, for example), such as in the National Forests, where firearms are "incident to" a recognized acceptable activity. However, use of campfires or other incendiary devices may be restricted, to protect the obvious assets.

I'm not giving my opinion here of how appropriate this logic is, but am relating the foundation of the current regulations. As to whether USPS property is truly "Federal property," I also have questioned since USPS was transferred to its current status as a federally-funded contractor (in effect).

Here's my expectation: The status quo would indicate that USPS is on Federally-purchased property, thus no different from JSC or the Capitol Building in D.C. The USC 930 restrictions would apply. Otherwise, USPS would be no different from USA or Boeing, when they're using their own facilities, where the property is under their own rules (which do not have to be any more favorable to CCW than USPS rules today). I suspect that the former will be the USPS argument, and would expect the decision to be in their favor.