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by OldCannon
Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:31 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Academy Sending A Certified Letter
Replies: 55
Views: 9914

Re: Academy Sending A Certified Letter

LAYGO wrote:
OldCannon wrote:
That stuff was no longer required by the ATF _over 10 years ago_. If you have somebody requiring it now, you can be CERTAIN they are not current on ATF guidance/regs, and are more likely to screw things up than not. Run away from places that are like this, FAR away.

I have occasionally discovered errors in 4473s that need to be corrected by the customer. Unfortunately, you can't send a 4473 to a customer, so they need to come in. Since I don't carry inventory, I usually offer a free transfer in the future. I've only had to do it a couple times though, and not in the last year or so.
I've purchased 3 firearms over the last 3 years from them (2 M&Ps (1 new 45c, 1 used but unfired 40mid, $150 off new) & an AR15, (again, used, but nearly unfired, $100 off new)). The way they go thru the paperwork is . . . firm. I never had the impression that they weren't current about how paperwork needs to be filled out. They recently changed ownership as well, but still do the paperwork the same (bought the AR15 there about 3wks ago).
They don't read ATF guidance then. As I've said before, dealers like this can actually _increase_ your chances of something going wrong. Use them with caution.

From the November 2008 Newsletter from the ATF (http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/n ... 008-11.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):
ABBREVIATIONS

ATF has received a number of inquiries regarding the use of abbreviations on ATF Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record) and in the acquisition and disposition (A&D) book entries. As a general rule, abbreviations should be avoided on Form 4473 or in entries in the A&D book. This is to avoid confusion or prevent providing an incomplete record. However, there are a number of abbreviations that are allowed.

The use of standard postal State abbreviations (i.e. AK, DE, VA, TX, etc.) or an easily and readily recognized abbreviation such as Mass. for Massachusetts is permitted. Additionally, the use of D.L. to denote “driver’s license” and O.P. to denote “operator’s permit” are also permitted. In general, if an abbreviation is legible and readily understood it would be acceptable. However, if the abbreviation is not understood, you will be told not to utilize it and continued use will result in either the issuance of a report of violation for the appropriate recordkeeping provision or other appropriate action.

As a rule of thumb, if you are unsure as to whether or not an abbreviation is readily understood, the abbreviation should not be used. Please keep in mind the importance of these records to law enforcement and the need to understand the abbreviations if you go out of business. It is important that the entries are written legibly and completely so everyone can understand them. ATF thanks you for your efforts.
This is why the ATF is perfectly content with things like "TX CHL" instead of "Texas Concealed Handgun Permit" on a 4473, or "Ruger" in your A&D book instead of "Sturm, Ruger & Co, Inc."

P.S. - Based on their draconian insistence on holding on to guidance from the Clinton era, I do not think waving this guidance in front of them is going to change their procedures. Some folks just like doing things one way because, "That's the way we do it."
by OldCannon
Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:12 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Academy Sending A Certified Letter
Replies: 55
Views: 9914

Re: Academy Sending A Certified Letter

03Lightningrocks wrote:More on topic here. When Doug called me I made the comment that I would simply refuse to go back. He didn't out right say it but I got the impression he believed as I do that it is their problem at that point. I am certainly not an expert on FFL laws and regulations. Am I wrong in believing that it is not my issue once the process is completed and I am gone? I can see where they may be in hot water but in a case like the OP had, not completely checking a box??? If it was obvious the check was headed that way I cannot possibly envision the ATF making a big whoop over it. I wonder if maybe some internal auditor was being overly cautious at Carlson's expense and inconvenience. The least they could have done is show some appreciation with a gift card or something.
Generally speaking, you have no obligation so long as you were truthful when you filled out the 4473. The ATF does ask dealers to try to get customers to correct/include missing information, but once the gun leaves in your hands, it's the dealer that's in hot water if something's wrong. Think about it: From the ATF's point of view, dealers only have two jobs:
1) Record "Acquisition and Didposition" of all firearms.
2) Make sure 4473 forms are correct and complete.

it's entirely your call whether to go back. Academy should have at least offered a $10 gift card or something.
by OldCannon
Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:36 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Academy Sending A Certified Letter
Replies: 55
Views: 9914

Re: Academy Sending A Certified Letter

03Lightningrocks wrote:You folks should experience the thrill of paper work at a place in Plano known as bullet trap. They are more than ridiculous. I figure they must have caught some grief from the storm troopers at some point. I kid you not, they made me spell out Junior at the end of my name instead of allowing me to put the normally considered appropriate Jr. Then they made me write Texas in the state box instead of Tx. There is not enough room for all this in the box and they insisted I make it all fit in the box. It was getting to a point of silly before I was done. I am not the only one to suffer their wrath either. I have several friends who were put through all kinds of hoops filling out that form at bullet trap. Like I said, I bet they have been roasted a time or two.
That stuff was no longer required by the ATF _over 10 years ago_. If you have somebody requiring it now, you can be CERTAIN they are not current on ATF guidance/regs, and are more likely to screw things up than not. Run away from places that are like this, FAR away.

I have occasionally discovered errors in 4473s that need to be corrected by the customer. Unfortunately, you can't send a 4473 to a customer, so they need to come in. Since I don't carry inventory, I usually offer a free transfer in the future. I've only had to do it a couple times though, and not in the last year or so.

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