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gringo pistolero wrote:It doesn't sound like this photographer escalated anything unless you count refusing to pay when they tried to shake her down.

And the stabbing was brutal, unconscionable and should be punished severely. Like any other petty matter, there was no reason to escalate to deadly force over a photograph or a payment for one.

My point was different. I don't walk around the worst parts of Oak Cliff at night by myself. To do so invites potential problems that I don't want. It seems that all around the world, the panhandlers have their own set of values (which I don't share and are not legally binding) and I consider crossing those values another risk that I can avoid. The poor victim in this case did not cause the attack but she had a couple of chances to avoid it. She could have taken the picture more discretely or, when confronted about her picture, acquiesced and made a donation. Legally she was 100% right. Unfortunately, she became a victim after those choices.

While there is no doubt that the photographer owns the picture, common courtesy suggests that I as a photographer should ask before I own someone else's image. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive because I spent part of my youth in PA's Amish country. Several of the Amish sects are religiously opposed to pictures being taken of them but the tourists do it anyway. Being a non-violent people, Amish will not attack a photographer. I wouldn't suggest talking to the subject of the picture afterward if you try. I doubt that the average tourist/photographer understands the Amish viewpoint. That's unfortunate.

Victims are not responsible for becoming victims That responsibility lies with their attackers. It is possible in some cases to avoid becoming a victim. In a gang related area, I would minimize gestures to avoid inadvertently flashing a gang sign that I didn't intend. Around panhandlers, I'm also very cautious. The fact that they are there, in a public place, means that there is not a lot of police help and, further, that I'm pretty much on my own in dealing with them. I had a woman in Florence chase me a half a block while carrying a baby and screaming "il bambino, il bambino" because I had momentarily made eye contact with her. I wasn't about to listen to her threaten to call the police and accuse me of attacking her unless I gave her money, a frequent ploy there. It is amazing how someone who's native language was obviously not Italian based on her dress was allowed to operate as she was doing. As is said of gun fights, the best defense is not to be there when it happens.

rp_photo wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... e/2439811/

This tragedy is being described as being killed over street photography, but I say it was more a matter of the criminals seizing the opportunity to launch an "interview"

Those who think all would have been well if the victim had given them $1 are naive in my opinion.

I don't know. I worked in center city Philadelphia for a number of years. I was part of a group that fixed computer equipment. Part of the job was to go to 12th and Market to pick up parts. Several of us had "encounters" with locals there wanting $1. I personally forked over the $1 when asked by someone who appeared to be able to harm me. I walked away. So did one of my team members. He and I both joked for years afterward that we had determined what our lives were worth and paid the price.

My point is that some panhandlers appear to live by a completely different set of values that the rest of us. I stopped to listen to more than one street musician in NYC and never failed to make a "donation" before I left. I saw one of the street musicians in New Orleans really get into it with a woman who stood nearby, listened to the music and then didn't give any money. He verbally tore into her and she finally decided that she could contribute. I won't even think of taking a picture of one without giving them something. On the other hand, I don't go around shooting pictures of people that I don't know, even in a tourist area like Venice, Italy. The locals that I was working with there always suggested saying "Posso fare una foto?" if you wanted to take a picture and someone was in the way. They would either move or smile for you and I never had a problem. If you wanted to take close up pictures of the gondoliers, you were expected to give them money.