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by Liberty
Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:16 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

dac1842 wrote: Liberty,
I agree we should be able to carry unrestricted except for carrying in bars. Other than that I support unrestricted carry.
We should not judge the entire HPD over the comments of a misguided union rep. I work in a very unionized industry, just because he represents them in a union capacity does not mean he represents the views of the guys on the street.
The officer out in the patrol car has an obligation to enforce the law. He may not agree with the way it is written but his job is to enforce it. IF the law says it is illegal to not wear a seatbelt in the back seat,then yes he is obligated to enforce it. That does not mean he is obligated to write a ticket, enforcement can happen in many ways. The method of enforcement is the officers discretion.

Does selective enforcement exist? We both know it does, always has and always will. I dont see us as in trouble. We have come a long long ways since the days of possessing a firearm outside your home was illegal. Instead of confronting the Union or our elected officials, why not engage them in constructive dialog. Granted it does not always work. We are seeing right now in D.C that the views of the people are being totally ignored for the views of a powerful few. Confrontation never works.

The next step is between now and the next legislature is for us as a law abiding community (CHL HOLDERS) to unite and and start to let the state reps and senators that voted down our bills, or quashed them in committee playing policitcal games, that our intent is to oust them from office. If all the CHL holders that live in the districts of the reps and senators who torpedoed the bills we backed were to call their reps and senators now, the tone would change in some. During the legisltature is the wrong time to start that process when opposing special interests are bombarding them too. Hit them now that they are home and in their districts. Dont be quiet about, be loud, respectful and show up in numbers at their offices and let them know as a community our intent is make them unemployed.
Just a couple of notes. My frustration isn't that the a union leader speaks against us, its that we never hear the membership give an opposing voice. Its not just that the officers give tickets to those in the back seats, It is the fact that the Chiefs and departments were lobbying to make it ticketable. Where are the voices that speak for personal liberties in the departments. I also undestand that the men in blue are mostly very good people. I suppose so weren't the North Vietnamese soldiers and the Red chinese who stormed the Korean penninsilla .. We all get to choose our sides.. I don't hear much about the unions in Chambers County or even Galveston, But the Houston Harris county police reps are their in force!! Doesn't the membership or the rank and file have a voice? if they are for us perhaps they should be heard buy us the taxpaying gun toters.

I do beg to differ with your last statement, confrontation is the only thing that works, at least in war and politics. I haven't had much experience or training in other confrontations.

With apologies to Mr. Cotton, I understand I've said enough , maybe to much on the topic.
Thanks for the civil dialog on a topic we both feel strongly about... This civility is what makes this board so unique/
"Nuff said.

Ray ..
by Liberty
Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:58 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

dac1842 wrote:The US Constitution gave us the right to bear arms. The intent of the Second Amendment was to give the citizens the right to own weapons. Their intent on carryng them on a daily basis is silent. Though back in their day that was common place due primarily to lack of enforcement. Over the years some courts have held that the right to carry is contained within the Second Amendment and hence you have states that have open carry per their respective legistaures. The open carry has not won much legislative support in Texas. Right wrong or indifferent in Texas no one questions the right to own a weapon. The state grants certain individuals who meet the criteria the privilege to carry a weapon concealed. Some on here think that is a right not privilege. Until the State grants it as a right, it is a privilege, just like driving.
The word bear is not about ownership its actually about carry. see: http://define.com/bear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The courts are wrong they have rewritten the law to be what they want it to be rather than as as it was written. The contitution is clear.. The reasoning and judgements are whats rather muddy.
dac1842 wrote: To support or not support your local law enforcement is your right as well. I for one, have a high degree of respect and admiration for those that chose to wear the badge. The police dont make the laws. The simply enforce the ones that our legislature passes and our governor signs into law. They have the duty to enforce them. Like any other profession 98 percent of them are hard working, tax paying Americans like you and I.
At a certain point when an agency keeps resisting us. they change from being our allies to being our enemys. ITs Kind of a French thing. :biggrinjester:


The problem is the membership keeps putting the same people in. Where are the voices in the department speaking against them.
dac1842 wrote:
To say that you would not stop to assist an officer who was in trouble is troubling. You have the right to say it, but if that is your feelings, then why should any citizen stop to help you if you are in trouble?
Lots of things go through our mind when we see certain situations. What is the risk? how badly does that officer need our help, Do I know that oficer? Is he likely a good guy or bad guy. Is he ATF? DEA? or a department I respect?
...
dac1842 wrote: There are many on this board that by the comments they have posted on this thread and others that seem to think that since they have a CHL they should be exempt from tickets, treated with more respect and are equal in power to the police. The only thing you are exempt from is being arrested for UCW as long as you have it properly concealed, you will get the respect you show, and we as CHL holders are no where close to being the equal to a police officer.

If you cannot support your local police, then the next time you are in trouble call your local Crips, Bloods, M13, or Aryan Brotherhood for help.
[/quote]
Are we not already in trouble when the Departments and their Representatives march up to Austin every 2 years and fight the honest good citizen on their rights to protect themselves. If the Agencies would stop campaigning for things like ticketing back seat drivers and working against CHLers they would improve relationships tremendously... How about if they just keep their chiefs and union Reps at home during the legislative session. How about a union representative speak about CHLers with a modicum of respect? How about a chief stating publicly he won't charge cancer patients with small amounts of drugs. How about Union speaking out against ticketing folks in the back seats? Are the departments about oppression or freedom..
I believe we as CHL holders as taxpayers are the superiors of the LEOs aren't we?
by Liberty
Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:22 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

dac1842 wrote:It causes me some concern on the mental state of some of our fellow CHL holders when I see comments regarding the police and folks saying that they will not stop and and assist if they see one in trouble, or referring to them as the the gestapo, referring to them as the enemy.

1- If anyone were to go past anybody, police or not that is in trouble and does not stop to assist, may you burn in Hades. The backbone of our country is the willingness to help those in need. To make a statement that if I see a cop in trouble I am just going to mind my own business and keep going, or refer to them as the enemy just completely blows me away.
The very ones that make that kind of statement are the ones that will Gary BlankinshipGary Blankinshipscream the loudest if an officer just minds his own business and drives by them in a moment of distress.
To see those comments on a board like this is very disconcerting. Take a moment an think about what our lives would be like if it was not for our Law Enforcment community. Anyone that believes that the Second Amendment will protect us and keep our community from becoming lawless without the men and women on the streets in patrol cars is completely and utterly insane.
2-I worked the streets for 15 years. The officer that stops a person has the right to know if that person is armed. That right is not contained in any written document, it is the safety and security of the officer that supercedes anything else. Granted the crook on the street is not going to notify, but the person that does notify the officer that he or she is legally carrying a weapon helps his/her own cause. That officer now realizes he is probably dealing with someone who is law abiding, is not a threat to him or his safety and actually cares enough to mention it.

3- The State of Texas gives us the privilege that I know most here feel Gary Blankinshipis a right, to carry a concealed weapon. I am not here to argue the merits or constitutionality of our right to carry. We MUST comply with laws regardless of if we agree with them or not. Along with any right we have comes responsibility. The right to carry comes with it the responsibility to be conciencious of how we exercise that right. IMHO, it is an obligation for us to notify the officer we have a weapon. Even though the crooks wont do it, responsibility is what separates us from the crooks.
The right to free speech does not carry with it the right to offend. We can say what we want, but being respectful, not politcially correct, respectful, is the responsibility of that right.

Even being an ex cop I have had my fair share of less than ideal dealings with the police. I do not judge all police by the actions of a very very few. I hope that you that have ill will towards the police will not judge all by the actions of a few.

Even though I do not agree with the statements of i will not stop and assist an officer in trouble, or referring to them as the gestapo or the enemy. I will defend to the death, your right to say it.
Could be a lot of us are justifiably angry and need a little venting.

Used to be police officers were the good guys.

In my time I have seen them beat black people and sweep them off their feet for the sole reason they wanted to be treated like real citizens. Used to be that LEOS worked a beat and stopped and talked to the citizens. Today it seems like the cops are right there the minute we go 10 miles over the speed limit, but can take more than an hour to respond to a broken in house. We use to believe that our government was here to protect us from the evil of the world. Today our government is the evil we that we truly fear.. We have seen Feds shoot down a whole family in Ruby Ridge and burn out an entire community. Our war on drugs fought by LEOS is truly a war on 30% of our nations citizens. People today are on the verge of complete revolt, yet we wonder why the LEO community isn't so fully supported? How can we be happy with the enforcers of our government when we are so POed at the government itself. To many of us its just not so clear who is the good guys and who is the bad guys anymore.

Many CHL holders tend to be great believers of freedom. They believe in our constitution, and they believe that government should be limited, yet it keeps growing in power and numbers. We believe that police who drive around look for seat belt violators are the enemy of freedom. We want to be responsible for our selves. Not the police state taking over every aspect of our lives.

So when we see the LEOs on TV and the media speaking out against us CHL holders or the chiefs praising the new seatbelt crackdowns. We never seem to hear anything on the news or in the papers from police speaking up for more freedom of the people. Law enforcement agencies and the unions fought us tooth and nail to get CHL laws, They paid big money to lobby to keep our citizens unarmed. We hear the chiefs brag about the big drug bust on the news, but where are the police when they bust the cancer patient for having a plant in his back yard, and the patient claims that its the only way he can hold his food down... I never see the departments speaking up for more CHL rights, or even sticking up for our constitution. Most time when I see the chiefs or department heads on the evening news they talk about our constitution as though it is an obstacle to be worked around.

Now this isn't to say that freedom loving folks don't apreciate the the police do, and the risk that they take to perform their job, but . when we have police spokesman speaking up against us like in the original post we get angry and want to strike back. Can anyone blame us for being an. gry? We CHL holders have a lot of enemies who want to take away our rights and freedom. (BTW: I thought it was a RIGHT to bear arms] We have proven that despite the legal traps our government has laid out for us we have lead pretty clean lives and proven that we are capable of making the right decisions. Its a little ironic that a Police spokesman can complain to the press about us not being able to be prosecuted while a. nother complains about our lack of willingness to use our weapons to he. lp the same officer.

I wonder when this Union hack spoke if he even considered how his words could cost him and the officers he represent in support. I wonder how many officers complained to this guy about his alignment with the disarmers? One can get mad at CHLers who are rightfully POed, but the guy the LEOs should really be angry with is the guy who started this war of words Gary Blankinship. If the LEOs he supposedly represents don't speak out and vote against him, then maybe the LEO deserves a little of our anger and loss of support. The question we all might ask, is this LEO for me or my enemy.
by Liberty
Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:46 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

dac1842 wrote:
Liberty wrote:
dac1842 wrote:True Police of any type are not required to notify as we are. But the fact is, most do. I was an LEO for many years, everytime I stopped another LEO he would identify himself immediately as an LEO and let me know if he was packing. Most understand the importance of the notification and the effect that the notificaiton has on the officers state of mind. I know someone will take off on that, and that is your right. Until you have walked in those shoes, don't critisize those that have.
Police will seldom get a ticket if the identify themselves as a "brother officer"
Liberty, that is not the point, true as it is. The point is that most officer, will announce if they are carrying a weapon.
The point is about motivation.
What's in it for me a civilian If I show my CHL?
What's in it for the LEO?

BTW I intend on showing my CHL to most LEOs if asked for an ID, but I must admit I am wondering if I should to Harris county LEOs, I question whether I should out of respect for the department. While I have a lot of respect most officers in Texas, Harris County seems to be in a league of its own, and from what I see and here they don't seem to respect us citizens much..
by Liberty
Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:35 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

dac1842 wrote:True Police of any type are not required to notify as we are. But the fact is, most do. I was an LEO for many years, everytime I stopped another LEO he would identify himself immediately as an LEO and let me know if he was packing. Most understand the importance of the notification and the effect that the notificaiton has on the officers state of mind. I know someone will take off on that, and that is your right. Until you have walked in those shoes, don't critisize those that have.
Police will seldom get a ticket if the identify themselves as a "brother officer"
by Liberty
Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:48 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Liberty wrote:While I believe in cooperating with the police .. showing the CHL .. I am wondering whether its a good idea to show our CHL to a Houston cop, or Harris county Deputy. They have proven they are the enemy and not to be trusted. If they are out to get us as CHLers maybe we probably shouldn't be giving them ammunition.

I'm still trying to sort this out, buy it does seem as though they are the ones that have picked this battle .. Starting with Chuck Rosenthal.
Come on muh man...This is all old news...Chuck is gone...Not even a bad aftertaste anymore... :hurry: :thumbs2: :tiphat: :cheers2:
It does seem like most of the anti gun politicians seem to come out of Houston, and now that we have a choice, maybe we should make decisions on how we proifile the particular dept,

If I got stopped by a LEO whose department doesn't have a gun unfriendly reputation and isn't known for real aggressive ticketing I believe we should give them every bit of the courtesy they have earned. But departments who don't deserve respect because of political stances by their leader ship, and their revenue gathering bye blue light special. I gotta say I I used to feel that way about Kemah.

I know if my company takes lousy public political stances we all pay for it, I'm just thinking we should co-operate with the bad guys just a little less than the good departments.. When I see the Houston Chief, and the Harris County DA actiually lobbying for us instead of against us, in Austin maybe I'll feel a little different.

Like they say "They're either with us or against us" there isn't much room between. Then again, I admit I haven't thought this thing out, and I actually know a couple of HPD officers and they are really nice people with positive attitudes about their jobs. But the leadership really doesn't seem to like us , and us outa towners can't do much about it.
by Liberty
Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:53 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

While I believe in cooperating with the police .. showing the CHL .. I am wondering whether its a good idea to show our CHL to a Houston cop, or Harris county Deputy. They have proven they are the enemy and not to be trusted. If they are out to get us as CHLers maybe we probably shouldn't be giving them ammunition.

I'm still trying to sort this out, buy it does seem as though they are the ones that have picked this battle .. Starting with Chuck Rosenthal.
by Liberty
Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:44 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law
Replies: 98
Views: 12683

Re: Police not happy about relazation of TX CHL law

LittleGun wrote:Interesting phrasing in the article: "...the Texas Legislature which quietly relaxed the state’s concealed weapons rules at the end of last session." The change was no quieter than other changes of the last session.
The bill was attached to a DPS sunset bill. There wasn't a lot of discussion about it in legislature, therefore it was rather quietly passed. Just as it can be claimed that Voter ID noisily failed,

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