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by Jumping Frog
Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:07 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Does this meet the legal requirements ?
Replies: 28
Views: 3267

Re: Does this meet the legal requirements ?

JP171 wrote:So if he didn't see the sign it wasn't conspicuous no matter the wording used it all means the same thing
There are all kinds of counterexamples one could think of. For example, a sign on the wall beside the door has someone standing in front of it when you walked up to the door. The sign was on the door, but someone was standing there holding the door open. Or the sign was right in front of a person's nose, but the person is walking deeply distracted and worried about their wife dying of cancer and doesn't notice.

The sign can be displayed in a conspicuous manner and the person can simply not see it.
by Jumping Frog
Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:47 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Does this meet the legal requirements ?
Replies: 28
Views: 3267

Re: Does this meet the legal requirements ?

jbarn wrote:
Keith B wrote:
jbarn wrote:Wait, are you saying that if a 30.06 compliant sign is posted a conviction requires the state prove you saw the sign?
That would be my argument in this case if I had not seen it so I never received notice the location was off limits; wouldn't it be yours? We are not clairvoyant, so unless you see it how do you know?
No. My argument would be that the sign was not conspicuous; therefore, it was not reasonable for me to have seen it. Again, if it's at eye level right by or on the door; claiming you didn't see it would likely not be accepted as a defense. You'd have a tough time there even establishing reasonable doubt that it was not conspicuous.

Or I'll just close my eyes from now on when I enter a business. :anamatedbanana
I remember this exact conversation with my law professor brother. His take on the situation is the jury would evaluate the evidence presented for a "reasonable person" scenario. When considering if the sign was 30.06 compliant, including the requirement "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public", either the prosecution could introduce evidence asserting it was conspicuous enough, or the defense could introduce evidence that it was not conspicuous. Then the jury would evaluate the evidence presented to determine if a "reasonable person" would find it to be conspicuous.

If I was the one charged, the legal standard would not be what I thought, but what a hypothetical "reasonable person" would think.

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