TexasCHLforum.com

Tamie wrote:So far, the people who like Frontsight are people who trained there, and the people who don't like Frontsight are people who didn't train there. That's an interesting split.

Astute observation my friend

James

Hoi Polloi wrote: The uncharitable and hostile defense of the place combined with the minimization of a person's death that I'm seeing here just reassures me that I'm right.

Show me where I have been "uncharitable" and "hostile". You sir, are judging me for something that I'm not guilty of.

And this thread has drifted totally OFF TOPIC as I'm the only one that has had a response even remotely on track to what the poster originally asked:

Wanted to see if anyone has been to the frontsight training and one really gets all the material and gifts that are mention in the ads.

Sadly, invariably, discussion of Front Sight usually degrades into a vocal minority, who shout down anyone that has anything favorable to say about the place.

I'm done, close the thread, as "justapatriot" is not getting any useful feedback.

Regards,
James

AndyC wrote:

extremist wrote:Please provide evidence of anyone dying at Front Sight due to Range Officer negligence. I don't believe you can.

Fine: http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?s=6847907" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The accident on July 4th is the subject of a criminal investigation. The I-Team learned late Thursday the Nye County sheriff's office plans to recommend felony charges against two of the instructors involved in the accident. Detectives believe their actions rise to the level of criminal negligence.

Gee, I had forgotten all about the class-action lawsuit and also failing to meet fire-safety standards 4 times in 2 years.

extremist wrote:My "internet commando" comment wasn't intended directly at you but those on the internet who disparage Front Sight without having been there and having first hand knowledge.

Fair enough - my apologies if I took that the wrong way.

Just to be clear, while tragic, and certainly a gut wrenching thing to have to live with, it had nothing to do with firearms.

That was a zip-line accident that occurred on a July 4th weekend and was a result of a YOUNG person at the other end that should not have been in that responsible situation.

Fire safety standards? What does THAT have to do with on the range training. Again, not really relevant.

Regards,
James

baldeagle wrote:

extremist wrote:As for two-way range? I not sure what you are talking about.

He's referring to a range where the bullets go two ways; from you and towards you. There's nothing like a live fire exercise to get your attention and make you seriously question your commitment to the armed forces. Not to mention teach you how to eat dirt and make yourself real thin and flat.

Gotcha. And as I replied, fortunately I have not been put in that position AND I NEVER SAID I HAD. What percentage of the top IDPA MA and EX class shooters, have? What percentage of the top USPSA GM and M shooters have? Does that make them any less qualified to talk about what is good training and what is not?

Regards,
James

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

extremist wrote:If you want real feedback from someone who has been there several times, and not some internet commando second hand drivel, then feel free to contact me.'

Who are you referring to?

Referring to people on other boards that like to slam Front Sight training when they know nothing about it.

extremist wrote:And with regards to the slam above, how many accidental shootings have occurred at the other big schools (i.e. Recently GUNSITE)? How many were shooter carelessness? And how many were law enforcement (doing it their way). Look it up. AND what rate per students trained?

Give us the numbers please. As for Thunder Ranch, I believe the answer is still none.

I have no numbers for Thunder Ranch. I know of at least two incidents at Gunsite that have occured in the past, one very recently (although not fatal). My point was, you cannot single out Front Sight and say that's the only training facility that has accidental shootings.

extremist wrote:FS trains more regular people every year than all the other schools COMBINED.

What is the source for this statement? I hope it's not Dr. Piazza

No, it is Wes LaHullier, the operations director at Front Sight.

Did you know of the class action lawsuit that was filed and the claims made?

Of course, old news, not relevant to the TRAINING aspect of the school.

Did you see the absurd promotional CD that Front Sight/Dr. Piazza sent to all IDPA members through IDPA HQ a few years ago? If so, what did you think of the claims?

No, didn't see that. I for one like the promotional CD that was put together that is given out if you request it, or attend the courses. Of course there were grandiose plans that were in the video that now are not realistically going to be completed. But the training facilities that are there now and operational are good and improvements are made each year. Will he ever reach his goal of building out? Who knows.

I don't know how any pro-2nd Amendment supporter can possibly criticize Piazza's Front Sight philosophy of trying to change the mindset of NON-ProGun people onto our side? Do you not agree with what he's trying to accomplish? Do you not agree with his examples of Harley Davidson and how the image was turned around from negative to positive? I for one respect Larry Pratt, Tonya Mataska, Aaron Zellman and other spokesman on the video about what Front Sight's mission is. Do you disagree with the "mission" (not the sales pitch)?

Go to FS as much and as often as you like, but TexasCHLforum will not be used to promote it.

Sorry I hit a sore spot with you, that was not my intention. I was just offering an answer to the poster that had some first hand knowledge and experience with the training and the materials - which is what he asked. I don't consider that "promoting" Front Sight.

Regards,
James

AndyC wrote: First off - I said that I believe that their training is ok - and that is based on the opinions of people I know and respect who have attended. Not outstanding, nor unique - but ok.

However - when someone dies on a training course as a result of negligence of the staff (in my sole opinion), then alarm bells seriously begin to ring for me.

As for the "internet commando" comment - well, some of the folks on the forum here have spent a lot of actual time on the two-way range, not just puffed and waddled their way through a few courses on a weekend. Now, seeing as you raised the subject, I believe that it's only fair to give you your say, so let's hear it: what's your claim to fame, then?

Please provide evidence of anyone dying at Front Sight due to Range Officer negligence. I don't believe you can.

As for two-way range? I not sure what you are talking about. If you are talking about combat experience, yes, alas, I have none. Puffed and waddled through a few courses? Well, I haven't puffed or waddled but I have taken several classes at Front Sight, competed in 4 man competition at Tiger Valley, taken courses and competed at Steve Mose's training facility as well as others in the past.

I compete regularly at CTIDPA and you are welcome to come shoot with us and meet some of the guys at the local IDPA matches. You can look at my scores on our website, as well as the DPC website when I compete there.

My "internet commando" comment wasn't intended directly at you but those on the internet who disparage Front Sight without having been there and having first hand knowledge.

As for how many people they train, it's easy to see the numbers that they train (350-500 people a weekend during May/June/July) that they easily train more people than Gunsite/Thunder Ranch and others combined. Their goal is not deep deep tactical training like Hackworth, Magpul and some others, but rather the basic handgun skills to be comfortable with your carry weapon. They offer more "tactical" training but their bread and butter is 4 Day Handgun, Shotgun, Rifle. The original poster asked:

Wanted to see if anyone has been to the frontsight training and one really gets all the material and gifts that are mention in the ads.

I provided him with my input.

Regards,
James

If you want real feedback from someone who has been there several times, and not some internet commando second hand drivel, then feel free to contact me.

I'll just say that I've been there several times and training is well worth what you pay for it, and all the promotional materials are delivered as promised.

And with regards to the slam above, how many accidental shootings have occurred at the other big schools (i.e. Recently GUNSITE)? How many were shooter carelessness? And how many were law enforcement (doing it their way). Look it up. AND what rate per students trained? FS trains more regular people every year than all the other schools COMBINED.

Regards,
James