TexasCHLforum.com

mojo84 wrote:I'm not going to play this game with you. Nothing you've said or will say is going to change my mind and I am sure that goes for you as well.

What game? Are my points invalid?

mojo84 wrote:

chuck j wrote:I knew this video thing was a farce , too flaky a deal . These folks intentions may have been good but it will hurt the anti abortion cause . Our country is sick but I am proud of our state putting up a fight to save the unborn children .

If it wasn't for these folks doing this investigative reporting, the state would not be looking into Planned Murderhood.

In Texas, there was no scrutiny before these videos? I find that hard to believe. We are better than that, IMO. And we have been all over PP for years and years. Both in Texas and nationally.

mojo84 wrote:I find it interesting people whine and cry that there is no investigative reporting done nowadays and then when it is done, people turn on the people that do it. Is that not a double standard and hypocritical?

If a person is complaining about not enough investigative reporting and then ripping it apart, there is a percentage of the complainers that are being hypocritical. But in and of itself, wanting something and wanting something done well doesn't make a person a hypocrite.

mojo84 wrote:This whole turn of events has me .

goose wrote:The quote of mine you quoted....."

That is some fine Englishin' there.

anygunanywhere wrote:

goose wrote:if our system is just, we will find out shortly

Justice for the almost 60,000,00 babies butchered since Roe v Wade in 1973 will never happen on this earth. The carnage will continue until the day abortion either stops or Our Savior Jesus Christ returns in glory. How anyone can wave the banner of abortion and cheer for obvious evil and ignorance of justice is something I cannot fathom.

Calling this justice is an abomination.

The quote of mine you quoted was addressing the justice system. If you feel it is an abomination, you may be correct. But I would again say that it is the best one I can see from here.

VMI77 wrote: I don't know what's next...I only know what I see around me right now. I can make some educated guesses about where that will lead.

I don't entirely disagree about holding ourselves to a higher standard. However, the deck is stacked against us. At some point when you continue to play by rules that aren't even recognized by your opponent you're no longer in the game, you're not even on the field. I'm not leaving, and I wouldn't leave even if there was some place to go.

I'm going off grid as much as possible but at this point, that's not a lot. At this point any practical "revolt" is limited to the states standing up to the federal government. For example, if the feds pass a law to confiscate guns, states like Texas pass a law refusing to recognize or enforce that law, just like other states allow sanctuary cities and don't enforce marijuana laws. That is the only peaceful means of opposition to tyranny remaining to us.

I don't think that you and I are crazy far apart. And I get the frustration. Believe me, I get the frustration.

VMI77 wrote:

goose wrote:I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

OK, so invoke Godwin's law, but everything Hitler did was within the law. So what? As beings with free will we must judge the law. It shouldn't be a crime to lie to the government. Period. The police should not get a pass for any conduct that would be a crime for a citizen. I don't know what "fraudulently filled out papers means." They lied on a form? If by deception they gained materially then it may be fraud. If they simply lied to a government that lies regularly to us and uses lies subjugate and control us then their integrity is intact.

"If our system is just..." That is easily answered: it isn't. See General Petraeus, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Corazine, Barrack Obama, et al.

So what is next? If we literally have zero faith in the system we should either revolt, go off grid, or leave right? I just expressed the opinion that if we are going to be "in the game," we should hold ourselves to a higher standard so as to be beacon for others to see. If we are going to discuss, what is IMO, a gorilla war on a subjugating government then that is a separate discussion. I have more faith in our system than that. Perfect? Nope. Best I can see for miles and miles and miles? Yep.

mojo84 wrote:

goose wrote:

mojo84 wrote: If you want to quote the bible, how about quoting the parts about murder of the innocent and the unborn in the mother's womb.

I think to be in context, you should need to quote the parts of the bible that say it is okay to give up/forego our integrity when dealing with abortion (or any other wrongs that we are dealing with). We can disagree on whether or not the actions of the video takers had integrity. I do not believe that we should be debating if integrity is disposable if the adversary is bad enough. I just don't see that in my scripture.

I do not believe what they did compromised or disposed of integrity. Since that is my position, I do not need to quote the bible about integrity or honesty.

Fair enough. We can disagree. It is such a large grey area that we would just be persuading each other. We don't know each other well enough to be effective at that, would be my guess.

mojo84 wrote: Look at it this way. If a female cop is put out on the street corner soliciting for johns, is that illegal or lacking in integrity? How about a cop posing as a john soliciting services or favors for money?

I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

mojo84 wrote: I find it interesting you seem to be holding the people that exposed the baby killers to a much higher standard than you do the baby killers.

Good. I hold my children to a higher standard than I hold others' children. I hold my friends to higher standards than I hold others. I hold my religious leaders and political leaders to higher standards that I hold the other team's leaders. IMO, if there is a down turn to our country and our political system it is because vast numbers of us subscribe to the "Well, our pile of excrement is better than their pile of excrement, so lets vote 'em up and celebrate their awesomeness" mentality. IF, and it is a crazy long shot, if we could get the conservative party (analogous to my children and friends mentioned above) as a whole to truly hold our elected officials to the standards we claim we have, a positive and wonderful change could occur. A revival really.

mojo84 wrote: If you want to quote the bible, how about quoting the parts about murder of the innocent and the unborn in the mother's womb.

I think to be in context, you should need to quote the parts of the bible that say it is okay to give up/forego our integrity when dealing with abortion (or any other wrongs that we are dealing with). We can disagree on whether or not the actions of the video takers had integrity. I do not believe that we should be debating if integrity is disposable if the adversary is bad enough. I just don't see that in my scripture.

mojo84 wrote:

goose wrote:

oohrah wrote:Poetic justice. You can't break the law just because you disagree with something, no matter how repugnant. Regardless of politics, abortion is legal, frauding federal documents is not.

This was my thought as well. If we (generalization of conservatives) claim to be the party/group of integrity, I didn't see a lot of integrity in the editing/making of those videos.

Do you realize they also posted the entire unedited versions of the videos?


I agree, this is a sad time for Texas. If what they did is illegal, then every undercover police and reporting operation needs to be shut down and the perpetrators indicted.

I do know that they released those videos, and they weren't nearly as damning as the edited ones made them out to be. But the "main stream media" didn't really cover those videos, did they? Spin always sucks when the other team uses it. No one minds so much when "out team" uses it. I think that Philippians 4:8 applies here for me. Yes, I realize quoting scriptures is incredibly ineffective in most debates because a person can find one to say just about whatever they want if they dig far enough. But my point in my original post still stands. Let us be honorable. Let us be pure. let us be of good repute. Let us be true. Let us be worthy of praise. A paraphrase of Phil. 4:8.

_IF_ police and reporters and breaking the law or possibly breaking the law, I hope that lots and lots of grand juries are looking into them. Undercover does not automatically mean fraudulent or illegal.

oohrah wrote:Poetic justice. You can't break the law just because you disagree with something, no matter how repugnant. Regardless of politics, abortion is legal, frauding federal documents is not.

This was my thought as well. If we (generalization of conservatives) claim to be the party/group of integrity, I didn't see a lot of integrity in the editing/making of those videos.