Search found 7 matches

by Slowplay
Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:19 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

JALLEN wrote:
Slowplay wrote:I don't really buy the overwhelming complexity defense. Parties to financial contracts are able to understand the agreements they make. If regulators or prosecutors are unable to understand them, that's another problem. If the trail of the financial losses are muddied to the point that they cannot be followed and understood, that's another issue as well. If someone is trying to make things out to be so complex that they cannot be understood, it's a good bet that there is something underhanded happening there.

The naked shorting I'm talking about wouldn't get to the point of delivery. The intent is to drive the price down where the longs join in (stops) and the short can be covered/closed with quick money made. I understand the naked call writing (as opposed to covered calls), but I'm refering only to the actual shares. Large investors would allow the broker to "borrow" long shares to cover short positions, etc. (with interest paid), but the shorting I'm talking about is above and beyond shares that could be borrowed.

Anyway, I see you're in Coronado. Did your son happen to work for PW in the San Diego office? I used to know several people in that office (was in the same building on B Street as the Symphony).
Yes, he was, on the audit staff.

Anyway, the complexity is a problem not because the parties don't understand or the regulators or prosecutors don't but because it is hard to get a jury to understand. I've had several instances of flagrant criminal conduct, financial misconduct, here in Scam Diego which were never prosecuted because the DA/USA didn't feel like they could get a conviction. Had it been a 7-11 stick-up, games on! New York occasionally has trials of very sophisticated crimes and sometimes they will take them on, but the prospects of this one must have been daunting, millions of documents , hundreds of witnesses to verify and authenticate, the state of the customer agreements, the arguments that would be made over the interpretation thereof, all must have entered into the decision not to prosecute. Al this is, of course, somewhat speculation on my part as I didn't participate in the deliberations or decision, merely looking at the smoking ruins and taking a guess or two.

I'm not sure about naked shorting in the context you describe. Transactions have to be cleared; I don't see how one could short without delivering the sold shares, which must be borrowed. I've heard of short sale orders that could not be filled due to inability to borrow shares to deliver.
Understand about the difficulting with juries - but, it seems the regulators would have a bigger stick (although we all know small fish are much easier to fry than the big fish). I guess the Corzine firm is effectively toast, so maybe there isn't an way to pursue civil actions/penalties.

Regarding the naked short sales, if the position is not closed (purchase back the shares sold) in time you have failure to deliver shares at settlement. The FTD would then need resolved (by delivering shares later purchased when the short position is closed - those bought shares then remove FTD). Anyway, I'm drifting way too off topic...

PM on the way.
by Slowplay
Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:50 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

I don't really buy the overwhelming complexity defense. Parties to financial contracts are able to understand the agreements they make. If regulators or prosecutors are unable to understand them, that's another problem. If the trail of the financial losses are muddied to the point that they cannot be followed and understood, that's another issue as well. If someone is trying to make things out to be so complex that they cannot be understood, it's a good bet that there is something underhanded happening there.

The naked shorting I'm talking about wouldn't get to the point of delivery. The intent is to drive the price down where the longs join in (stops) and the short can be covered/closed with quick money made. I understand the naked call writing (as opposed to covered calls), but I'm refering only to the actual shares. Large investors would allow the broker to "borrow" long shares to cover short positions, etc. (with interest paid), but the shorting I'm talking about is above and beyond shares that could be borrowed.

Anyway, I see you're in Coronado. Did your son happen to work for PW in the San Diego office? I used to know several people in that office (was in the same building on B Street as the Symphony).
by Slowplay
Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:10 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

JALLEN wrote:Corzine did not "steal" the money as that term is commonly used and understood. There were tremendous losses that eroded the firm's capital and more besides. What appears to have happened is that firm took positions which moved against them, more collateral was required, more was posted, and the further deterioration of those positions eventually led to assets less than liabilities and bankruptcy. The "experts" guessed wrong. I am given to understand that the customer agreements in common use in that industry permitted the firm to use customer funds in that manner, or so it can be cogently argued, meaning prosecution was either dubious or unavailing. Prosecutors do not like to bring and try cases they appear likely to lose, and a case like this which would involve untold documents, witnesses, no telling how long to try, against the formidable resources, financial and legal, of the defendants, is daunting at best. I've not studied that matter in detail so am going by experience and what has appeared in the financial press that I have seen.

The system is set up in certain ways, "rigged" in your parlance, I suppose. Many of the things that used to be legal when I was a young stockbroker are thoroughly illegal now. I can't think of anything off hand that was illegal then but legal now. These firms have elaborate and expensive inside counsel officers and high priced outside law firms to keep them on the right side of things, but that doesn't keep them from losing when their investments turn out badly, and sometimes doesn't work at all, like the fiasco at Salomon Bros. decades ago.

What is a "dark pool?"
Whenever you see a firm incurring massive financial losses for positions the firm itself took, you have to wonder about who the counterparties were. When one party in a speculative contract loses, the counter party gains (or effectively hedges to offset losses from another arrangement). It seems Corzine has political cover, so we don't and probably won't really know what happened.

Regarding what is now legal (or not enforced and de facto allowed), what about naked shorting? Broker dealers used to be required to have sufficient borrowed shared to cover short positions. In recent years, it seems that there is no enforcement of the borrowing of shares to cover short positions, effectively allowing manipulative downward pressure. Also, thanks to Robert Rubin & his friends at Citi (and let's not forget Bill Clinton and even Phil Gramm), there's the whole lifting of Glass-Steagall restrictions on commerical banks, allowing them to really dive into investment banking (that seems to have worked well, :lol: ).
by Slowplay
Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:45 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

:iagree: Pretty fascinating personal connection to the anti-colonialist mindset.

Regarding Obama's intent, I see it more from the perspective of whether he and his administration are sufficiently competent. If you take the position that the admin. is competent, then intent can be reasonably determined based on the policy decisions made (when the outcome of those decisions should be apparent).

ETA: I also believe many in academia would object to 2016 based mainly on the light it shines on Obama and how the broader American public would react. Regarding the anti-colonialist perspective, many in academia would find solemn agreement (I'm specifically reminded of my International Relations professor from many moons ago, who espoused similar anti-colonial sentiments...when not talking up and fawning over his personal hero, Zbigniew Brzezinski...but I digress).
by Slowplay
Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote:
Slowplay wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Rex B wrote:To my mind Rush is the conservative counterpart to Chris Matthews.
Michael Moore's counterpart is Dinesh D'Souza (2016)
Except that Dinesh D'Souza, unlike Michael Moore, does let facts get in the way.
:headscratch Could you elaborate, please? I understand 'not letting the facts get in the way of a good story', but are you saying D'Souza let the facts get in the way of the 2016 movie? What does that mean?
He is saying that Michael Moore does not let facts get in his way, also known as he brazenly lies without any resemblance to real facts.

Whereas Dinesh D'Souza does let facts enter into his argument, he is telling the truth.
Exactly.
I was hoping that's what you meant. I just got stuck on the "does let facts get in the way" part - guess I was overthinking how the facts got in the way...e.g., maybe there were facts omitted from 2016 (misleading by omission).

I am quite accustomed to hearing (and saying) "don't the the truth get in your way or stop you" (from telling your tall tale/story) - just wasn't sure if you had a critique of D'Souza's 2016. That would have surprised me. :tiphat:
by Slowplay
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:41 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Rex B wrote:To my mind Rush is the conservative counterpart to Chris Matthews.
Michael Moore's counterpart is Dinesh D'Souza (2016)
Except that Dinesh D'Souza, unlike Michael Moore, does let facts get in the way.
:headscratch Could you elaborate, please? I understand 'not letting the facts get in the way of a good story', but are you saying D'Souza let the facts get in the way of the 2016 movie? What does that mean?
by Slowplay
Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:15 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins
Replies: 78
Views: 12116

Re: Limbaugh Predicts Economic Collapse If Obama Wins

longhorn_92 wrote:The OP is missing?
Seems to be...since this is the first post I see in this thread:
RoyGBiv wrote:Interesting first post.

Rush is a very large bag of very hot air. I am not a fan.
He is the Right's Rachel Maddow. Rush does us few favors with his speak-->think.
I suspect all the doomsayers (in both directions) are overstating things.
America is quite resilient.

All that said, there is LOTS of merit to the notion that we will experience economic hardship if Dear Leader is re-elected.
I just :headscratch when I saw the RGB post, but I seem to miss a lot of deleted posts.
atticus wrote:This election is not about Rush. If someone doesn't like what he says, he can turn off the radio. Our problem is that the only way we can turn off Obama is to vote him out of office. Rush does not influence the economy, nor does he set policy, nor does he appoint federal judges and czars, nor does he dictate foreign policy. Arguing against Rush is setting up and punching a straw man. Obama is the issue. Not Rush. Nor Rachel Maddow, for that matter.
QFT
PrideAndJoy54 wrote:I trust Rush as much as, if not more than, any other blowhard on TV, the radio or the internet... including this forum.
:tiphat: I must agree with you, while at the same time acknowledging I can also be a blowhard (although I strive for brevity). :lol:

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