P3AT opinions?

[NcongruNt]

So Christmas is coming up, and I'm looking into getting my girlfriend her own handgun. I was considering getting her a Bersa Thunder 380 CC, but past discussions with her indicate that she wants something more compact. Not wanting to go any further down in caliber, this brings me to the Kel-Tec P3AT.

I've shown her pictures of the P3AT, and her response has been positive, and she thinks it's "cute" (a qualifier for her). I don't think she's too far from wanting to get her CHL, and an easily concealed and carried pistol will probably affirm to her that she can carry with reasonable comfort.

My main concern is how the pistol feels to shoot. She got to try out Venus Pax's Bersa Thunder 380 at Forum Day, and very much liked the way it felt. Can anyone tell me how the felt recoil compares to that of the Bersa Thunder? I know the P3AT isn't a "fun gun", but I want to make sure that she won't be put off by it to the point where she doesn't spend time practicing at the range.

The only .380 I know of that is a comparable size is the AMT Backup, but it has a lower mag capacity and is considerably heavier. Any comments on this gun are welcome as well.

[KFP]

The "snap" that the P3AT can be controlled pretty well with some practice and even better with a finger extension for the mag, though this is always a balancing act in terms of concealability. I think that it's a great gun for CC, but probably not the best for day to day shooting. So depending on what you think she'd like to use the gun for it could go either way. I have not had the chance to shoot the Bersa either, so I can't make a comparison between the two.

Check this out if you haven't seen it: http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf

[mr surveyor]

I have had a P3AT (as well as several other KT's) for several years. I got one of the earlier 2nd generation models and had some "issues". All the problems were resolved and KT made some minor design adjustments that ultimately solved the problem. It's my always gun, even though I have others to choose from (Kimber, Ruger, Rossi, etc). Now, a major consideration is being able to properly handle the recoil without limpwristing the pistol. I have strong adult male friends that can't properly handle the P3AT and can cause FTE's. Being an extremely light pistol for such a powerful round (relatively speaking, of course), the P3AT does require a firm grip with a strong wrist. Many women (my wife included) just will NOT feel good at the range with a P3AT. She can definately handle it, and would if necessary, but not in more than a few rounds at a time. Now, the P32 is an excellent choice for ladies like my wife to use as a daily practice weapon, and the P3AT for carry/SD.


Get both

p.s. ditto the suggestion for the finger extension as it makes a tremendous change in the ability to control muzzle flip. But, it does somewhat hinder concealability under certain circumstances.

[NcongruNt]

Interesting that they don't include the AMT Backup .380 in that chart, only the .45. For size, it seems the AMT and the Kel-Tec are the only options I see, while remaining in a budget of ~$400.

That Rohrbaugh 9mm looks awful nice, but I don't think I could swing $950 for one by Christmas, and the recoil is probably much more pronounced anyway.

[ScubaSigGuy]

I own a Bersa .380 and a P3AT. I can tell you that my better half likes shooting the Bersa but wanted no part of shooting the Keltec after just one try. I keep the Keltec around because in some situations I just can't carry anything larger and would rather have it than nothing at all. The grip on the P3 is very thin obviously and makes it a little awkward and uncomfortable. I would have her try shooting one before buying anything.

[Snake Doctor]

I won't pretend to have an opinion on the P3AT as I have not shot one, but what I can tell you is that the PF9 is awesome and still very compact.

[anygunanywhere]

She needs to shoot different handguns before she decides what to carry. If she can handle the P3AT and become proficient with it, outstanding. See if you can borrow one or rent one.

Mrs. Anygun qualified with a GGlllllloock (the range had one for her to use)so she could have the SA on her CHL. She carries a S&W 646 wheelgun. Mrs. Anygun just does not like having to do the slide and magazine thing. She is more comfortable with the wheelie.

The ladies need to be really involved in the handgun decision process. If the P3AT hurts her, and mine have left cuts on my burgergrippers, she may not like it.

Bersa makes a fine product. Never shot an AMT. The small Berettas are nice too. The PF9 has already been mentioned, I own a P11 which shoots well and is compact.

Anygun

[NcongruNt]

I have had a P3AT (as well as several other KT's) for several years. I got one of the earlier 2nd generation models and had some "issues". All the problems were resolved and KT made some minor design adjustments that ultimately solved the problem. It's my always gun, even though I have others to choose from (Kimber, Ruger, Rossi, etc). Now, a major consideration is being able to properly handle the recoil without limpwristing the pistol. I have strong adult male friends that can't properly handle the P3AT and can cause FTE's. Being an extremely light pistol for such a powerful round (relatively speaking, of course), the P3AT does require a firm grip with a strong wrist. Many women (my wife included) just will NOT feel good at the range with a P3AT. She can definately handle it, and would if necessary, but not in more than a few rounds at a time. Now, the P32 is an excellent choice for ladies like my wife to use as a daily practice weapon, and the P3AT for carry/SD.


Get both

p.s. ditto the suggestion for the finger extension as it makes a tremendous change in the ability to control muzzle flip. But, it does somewhat hinder concealability under certain circumstances.

Getting both definitely won't fit within a $400 budget. From what I've found, the finger extensions for the P3AT are actually Bersa Thunder extenders? It seems that Kel-Tec doesn't make them at all. The reports I've seen say the Bersa extenders fit perfectly with no modification.

I guess it's subjective enough that she may have to try it out first. She went through a couple magazines from my PA-63 before she decided she didn't want to shoot it any more. That gun has a very pronounced kick (many people describe it as "bite"), so the P3AT may be within her tolerance range. Anyone near Austin that has a P3AT and wants to go shooting? I don't know of any ranges that rent out P3ATs.

[CompVest]

A woman's perspective and 2 cents worth. I like the Bersas. I like the KT 32's. I do NOT like the KT 380's. I like Kimber's Ultra Carry. I like Kahrs.

[KFP]

I thought of another thing that I've done with my P3AT. As others have said, it will take its toll on your/her hand - but it is improved considerably if you add a grip. I added an ultra expensive one in the form of a bike innertube and makes a huge difference to me.

-KFP

[texasag93]

+1 on the PF9.

The P3AT and the PF9 (I have both) are both like driving a standard transmission. Harder, but if the need is there, they both work.

Also the 9mm is bigger than the 380 and the ammo is cheaper.

With the KelTek, pratice is necessary due to the loooooooooooooong trigger pull.

I will be in Austin visiting my parents around Christmas if you want to get together and shoot both of them.

texasag

[Skiprr]

I second all the opinions to actively involve her in the selection process. If she is to have her first handgun and consider a CHL, she has to have one she likes and trusts.

I add that last qualifier because some people love the P3AT and some don't. I think it all depends upon the individual pistol you happen to get. I happen to be the proud owner of one that has gone back to the manufacturer twice since I bought it NIB last February (so I'm down about $60 for shipping), and I won't carry it or post it for sale because I can't trust it to fire more than a couple of dozen rounds in a row. It's never been about FTF or FTE--never had a problem there--it's about the firing pin. Nice little dents in the primer with no bang doesn't help much if you really really need the bang. I'm sure mine is just a rare lemon, but it's the only Kel Tec I've ever purchased, and the only lemon handgun I've ever owned. For pocket carry, I use a Seecamp.

Involving her directly in the decision will make sure she has something she likes, and that she has taken ownership in the decision. If the pistol needs warranty work, she may be more likely to have patience with the repair.

Another brief point to consider is that pocket pistols, by their very size and miniscule sight radius, aren't terribly accurate. If she doesn't shoot at all yet, starting her out with a mouse gun may cause some frustration when she tries to hit the x-ring at the range. CompVest would know best, but if you have access to .22 like a Browning Buckmark, a Ruger MKII, Beretta Neos, or a SIG Trailside, it might be a good idea to let that accompany the two of you to the range so she can understand how accurate she can be, and that it's just the nature of the pocket pistol that limits her accuracy with it.

[pfgrone]

I own both the Bersa Thunder 380 and the P3AT. I carry the P3AT daily and never carry the Bersa due to reliability problems which no one esle seems to experience.

When I shoot the Bersa at the range, I go through a box of 50 and leave a gaping hole where the center of the target was. Sweetest shooting gun I have which includes Ruger .22 semiauto, .38 snubbie and 9mm Kahr pm9.
Recoil is minimal in my opinion. I just don't trust it for carry purposes.

When I shoot the P3AT at the range, I usually just shoot a couple of magazines full to ensure it still shoots with 100% reliability. My groupings on the target shouldn't even be called groupings. It has much more snap than the Bersa, in my opinion, which is why I don't shoot it a lot during a single session.

Of course, someone else might have the opposite experience.

[OnTexasTime]

Everybody has covered it well, but I will add my 2 cents. I have both a Kel-Tec P3AT and a PF 9. I like them both for different reasons. I can only stand to shoot about a dozen shots with the P3AT without having a sore hand the next day. For defense and to conceal it is a good gun.

No one gun is the best one for everybody. The best advice here is to rent or borrow a P3AT (& other choices) and let her shoot it.

[NcongruNt]

Hmm, texasag93, I might take you up on your offer. The PM9 is starting to look a little better - both in caliber and accuracy/handling, but it looks like they go for around $550. I might be able to swing that by the time Christmas comes around. What's the size comparison between the P3At and the PM9? She thinks a Thunder 380 is too big. Maybe we'll take a trip down to Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse and see what she likes by feel.