Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire
IMHO that's an urban legend. If you're not justified in using deadly force, you have no reason to draw.LedJedi wrote:... "you dont want a perfect score on this. If you ever shoot someone and get pulled into court and it shows surgical skill it's going to come up that you could have shot without killing them."
it sort of smacked of urban legend-ish to me too. I figured if it was an x cop telling me though it might have some merit. I have a hard time thinking the would go back and pull up my target, but putting two outside the ring didnt hurt me any either. I do wonder about those two extra holes in the target though from the old lady. hmmm, oh well. I got the plastic. That's what matters.seamusTX wrote:IMHO that's an urban legend. If you're not justified in using deadly force, you have no reason to draw.LedJedi wrote:... "you dont want a perfect score on this. If you ever shoot someone and get pulled into court and it shows surgical skill it's going to come up that you could have shot without killing them."
Your scores on the shooting and written tests are not recorded. The TR-100 form contans only the word "pass."
- Jim
Yeah...I don't buy that. Besides the reasons Jim gave, they couldn't ever get a credible expert witness to testify that in a deadly force situation you should or could have attempted to "wing" the baddie instead of taking a CoM shot. Evidence of incompetence would only hurt you, not help you. (Not that a couple of points down from 250 would be exactly evidence of incompetence, mind.)LedJedi wrote:
you know, our instructor said something interesting during class. I'm sure those with more experience can chime in on this, but he said something to the effect of "you dont want a perfect score on this. If you ever shoot someone and get pulled into court and it shows surgical skill it's going to come up that you could have shot without killing them."
That perked my ears up and is perhaps a good point. Whether that would actually happen or not, i dont know. I threw two shots outside my 10 ring because of that though. Couldn't hurt.
I have never heard bad legal advice directly from a cop, but I have heard a lot of bad advice attributed to cops.LedJedi wrote:it sort of smacked of urban legend-ish to me too. I figured if it was an x cop telling me though it might have some merit.
That's idiocy. First, we train you to shoot center mass. Second, killing the person was not your objective; getting them to stop was. History has shown us that handguns often do not cause people to stop their deadly actions even when center mass hits are made (I can cite numerous examples). Third, non-center mass targets are small, move a lot and are difficult to hit at all. Fourth, non-center mass targets are more likely to have thru and thru, endangering innocents. Fifth, shooting skills diminish under stress, and patterns increase.LedJedi wrote:you know, our instructor said something interesting during class. I'm sure those with more experience can chime in on this, but he said something to the effect of "you dont want a perfect score on this. If you ever shoot someone and get pulled into court and it shows surgical skill it's going to come up that you could have shot without killing them."
I disagree with that too. I can think of several reasons to draw prior to actually having justification to use deadly force, and chapter 9 allows for that.seamusTX wrote: If you're not justified in using deadly force, you have no reason to draw.
- Jim
§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. For purposes of this section, ..............a threat to cause death or
serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension
that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the
use of deadly force.
what if we just say, "I'm your huckleberry."txinvestigator wrote:I disagree with that too. I can think of several reasons to draw prior to actually having justification to use deadly force, and chapter 9 allows for that.
A guy approaches you with a pipe (not the kind you smoke ;) ), from about 20 yards away. Would you not not produce your weapon when he is at a distance rather than wait for him to get close enough where you NEED to shoot?LedJedi wrote:what if we just say, "I'm your huckleberry."txinvestigator wrote:I disagree with that too. I can think of several reasons to draw prior to actually having justification to use deadly force, and chapter 9 allows for that.
overall, i do tend to agree with Txinvestator here. (someone take a picture)
I find it hard to see a situation where I would draw my gun and NOT shoot. That doesn't mean that the situation isn't out there though. At one time i could see that situation, clearly, but maybe not now so much.
I tend to think "they should never know i'm even armed until they're already squinting from the muzzle flash".
Upon some further thought though, I do now carry OC/CS . (and no, i'm not spraying the wife, heh).
did we just hijack this thread? sorry man.
Wasn't that someone who pulled it in an obviously inappropriate situation?seamusTX wrote:I'm familiar with 9.04.
The problem is that at least one CHL holder has been convicted of failure to conceal because he drew and did not shoot. There was a long thread on it from about a year ago.
I can see circumstances like vacant parking garages where it would be appropriate and not penalized.
- Jim
+1txinvestigator wrote:A guy approaches you with a pipe (not the kind you smoke ;) ), from about 20 yards away. Would you not not produce your weapon when he is at a distance rather than wait for him to get close enough where you NEED to shoot?
Yes. It was a road-rage incident where the other person was unarmed except for the vehicle.txinvestigator wrote:Wasn't that someone who pulled it in an obviously inappropriate situation?
Xander,Xander wrote:Coming away from that practice session, I have two primary questions.
1) Is the instructor going to ask me to decock before each string of fire, to simulate what I would be shooting if I were pulling my weapon out of a holster? Or will they let me shot SAO, as I normally would for range fire?
2) How does the official timing work? I’m particularly worried about the 2 and 3 second strings at 3 yards. Am I going to have time to fire sighted shots as I normally would? If I don’t get the shots off in time, do I get dinged for all 5 points per? Should I forget about hitting true COM and just get 5-point shots off as quickly as I can?
As such, if you're a decent shooter and reasonably familiar with your pistol, the range test is absolutely nothing to be concerned with. Trust me, you will pass.My instructor does not record the scores and destroys the targets for this reason. You only pass or fail. That is all that is required by law.LedJedi wrote:you know, our instructor said something interesting during class. I'm sure those with more experience can chime in on this, but he said something to the effect of "you dont want a perfect score on this. If you ever shoot someone and get pulled into court and it shows surgical skill it's going to come up that you could have shot without killing them."
That perked my ears up and is perhaps a good point. Whether that would actually happen or not, i dont know. I threw two shots outside my 10 ring because of that though. Couldn't hurt.